If you like Cesar, who are your other role models?

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

OK, so don't get hung up on the word "hero" or "fan".  I'm just interested in who else's philosophies appeal to the people who also like CM.  Instead of immediately defending CM yet again, why can't you just say who else you think has valuable training or behavior advice that you have taken?  That's really all I asked for in starting this thread.  What I am interested in is who would also appeal to the people who think CM is good, that's all.

 
Mastiff already answered your question.
 
Go find the last thread you opened on this topic.

ORIGINAL: Angelique

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

OK, so don't get hung up on the word "hero" or "fan".  I'm just interested in who else's philosophies appeal to the people who also like CM.  Instead of immediately defending CM yet again, why can't you just say who else you think has valuable training or behavior advice that you have taken?  That's really all I asked for in starting this thread.  What I am interested in is who would also appeal to the people who think CM is good, that's all.

Mastiff already answered your question.

Go find the last thread you opened on this topic.

Who are your heroes, Angelique?  Apparently, you would rather redirect the discussion than particpate. 

If I've breached any etiquette then I genuinely apologise - I thought anyone posting on these threads was free to respond to whoever they like.  If I'm wrong then I'd like someone to correct me PDQ and I'll be very careful who I reply to on future threads to avoid muscling in on anyones racket....
 
snownose, just a suggestion and not in any way being nasty:  If you don't want others to respond and in particular if it's completely OT, perhaps using the PM facility would be a good idea?  Then others won't be able to muscle in on your conversation and the thread won't be "hijacked".
 
I'm also interested in what spiritdogs originally asked about, partly because CM doesn't have anywhere near the amount of influence he does over here as he seems to elsewhere.  Maybe us Brits are just way too soft.  In any case, I can't find the other thread - could anyone post it it up for me?

I am very interested to read "the other end of the leash" by McConnell i am sure i am gonna find really good information about what energy you transmit to your dog thru the leash, i am sure i would admire someone that was able to realize something like that []  (even if she does not like CM)

 
I have no one method or trainer, including CM that I worship or look up to.  I don#%92t believe there is really any right or wrong.  There are methods that are more effective under certain circumstances than others.  The biggest consideration for me and my method includes my personality, my dog#%92s personality, my goals, my abilities and experience.  I put an end to bad behavior using aversive methods like gentle leash pops. I train obedience using positive methods (I don#%92t click).  As for OP question, I have read most dog training books and find something good in all of them.  I don't have any hero's or am I a fan of just one.  I actually find "lots” of things I don't agree with or what I think to be flaws with most of what I read somewhere in there own personal take on what they are training and teaching.  It truly depends on the dog, the owner and the objective of what you want of your dog and family. 
 
For example here is my take on some trainers I like.
 
It may come as a shock to some people to learn that Karen Pryor did not invent clicker training. It was invented by legendary animal trainer Bob Bailey.  Bob teaches shaping behaviors to people using chickens, to prove it works.  However even Bob, on one interview popped up to set one "pure positive" person right in his place. Mr. Bailey wanted it known that he himself was not a "clicker trainer." He used clickers, sure, but he also felt there was a place for mild coercion. He even thought there was a right time and place to "shoot the dog" when dealing with extremely dangerous animals. Not a peep was heard after that.  I like Bob and his general ideas on dog training.

Although I like Jean, when I first read "The Culture Clash" I thought it was great. When I went to reread again much later, I saw a lot of the flaws in it. Such as claiming to be very objective and scientific and then using totally subjective language. And when I hear her refer to dogs as "lemon brains" it drives me crazy.  I find Jean to be an angry type writer and personally it turns me off on things, but she has value that I have taken and used for sure.

I have always liked The Monks of New Skete and they have completely revised and updated their original work to include 'the most current ideas about training and dog care' while remaining 'faithful to what we have learned through our experience.' While the book does contain many useful, tried-and-true techniques for obedience — stay, heel, down-stay, recall and the like — its unique value lies in the monks' insights and thoughts about the human-canine bond. Concepts such as discipline and praise are more than merely a means to an end, the monks maintain: they are extensions of a caring attitude and real communication with a canine companion – which I agree with.

So I have to say I have lots trainers and methods in my "tool box” and use different methods for different situations and I think the combination of all of the above is best – IMHO.
 
Edited to add:  Volhard – there was a time when I thought they were great, now they are too much leaning towards nutrition as reason for some behaviors.  Too much emphasis on this and it turns me off.

Spiritdogs,
 

ORIGINAL: Angelique

Mastiff already answered your question.

Go find the last thread you opened on this topic.

Do we have a popcorn smiley?

Well i like behaviorists methods, the only "behaviorist" i know is CM, the others i know are +R and since my choice of "training" is not to +R so i just can keep looking for other behaviorists out there but they are not as many as +R trainers, Anne, do you know any other behaviorists that i can read about? 

snownose, just a suggestion and not in any way being nasty: If you don't want others to respond and in particular if it's completely OT, perhaps using the PM facility would be a good idea? Then others won't be able to muscle in on your conversation and the thread won't be "hijacked".

 
Usually, I write the poster's name in front of my response or question, so there is no confusion in who it is directed to.......

1st warning
 
This is the question asked.....
who else are you impressed by?  Who else in the dog world is a hero to you, and why? 
 
Continue on in this thread in response to the topic

ORIGINAL: snownose

spiritdogs,
              I think you will find that many CM supportes use other methods, too.
Many posters have owned dogs before CM ever showed up on tv.

I think the majority of CM supporters realize that he deals with very tough cases, and posters on this board don't have dogs in that extreme field.

I'm sure they do use other people's methods.  That's why I started the thread because I have an interest in whose methods they also support.  I'm not that concerned with so called "red zone" dogs' owners.  I am also interested whose methods ordinary dog owners are using besides CM's.

ron, luvmyswissy and Mastiff, thanks for your honest response to the question.  We may not always agree, but I respect that you have opinions based on your personal experience that you are willing to share.
Chuffy, I think that you Brits have come farther along the trail to being "soft" than we sometimes.  I do love the natural look of uncropped ears!  Had I been able to choose, my Aussie would probably be sporting a tail, too, LOL.  I appreciate your insights, and it's nice to have you on board here, too.
Thanks for trying to keep the thread OT, Jaime.  I am struck by the defensive tone of some of the posts, and the nastiness that turned up in red at just a simple question.

I would further expand my reply that what I like about Clothier is that her explanations are clear, direct, and based on canine observation and are written in a way the layperson can understand.

That being said, any person can be better by having many resources. Example, for some dogs, the prong collar might be the most humane, effective thing. For others, it may simply be the start and stop walk, using treats when the proper walking behavior is presented. Some dogs may respond immediately to this. Others may not and may need a physical, non-painful, non-injurious cue. Most important is consistency. Dogs respond to patterns or schedules. Yes, understanding the underlying problem, such as lack of socialization may affect the dog's final ability to behave around other dogs and work with that limitation is important. And, again, some dogs may change over time and not need a certain piece of equipment or a particular structure to a walk. To borrow from Polymathia, one size does not fit all.

In the case of a dog that has limited ability to socialize with other dogs due to genetics, breed, or past experience, the owner has to accept some lifestyle changes, such as controlled walks in quiet circumstances, even if this means driving to another location, or getting exercise and interaction in a yard, maybe not going to dog parks. That's why a rescue org will tell you that a certain dog is for a one-pet household and must be securely contained. That means no dog parks, high fence, quiet structure in the environment. Some breeds, such as Huskies, unless socialized as a puppy, will see kitty as a crunchy lunch and pass the ketchup, please.[]

Clothier's presentation, on the whole is a little more complex but it does offer the all-important question, how does this dog fit into your life and what are you trying to accomplish. To borrow a phrase, dogs do what works. Well, so do I. So, I value her advice, regardless of lack of higher academic creds, and not just because she has a lot of experience with big, drivey dogs. But because her methodology works.

I was very interested in the title and so I came to read. I was truely interested in the other trainers those who enjoy CM might also like...I must say I was very disappointed to read some of the responses given and that there was not much in the way of an answer to the original question.
 
I have said it many times...I have not watched CM so I have no real opinion of the man or his techniques. I do however enjoy learning and reading and use this board for such in areas that I may be weak in...training being one of them. I have been in training classes, I have trained my own dogs for my needs and have worked with problem dogs who have come into my life. I always use what I feel is in my "comfort zone" when assessing "technique" I use on a specific dog and am open to all levels as long as it works for the dog.
 
Sorry I can't answer your question and I know you already know who one of my favorite trainers is so I'm not going to repeat myself on that topic....OK, so to anser your post I've gone off topic...
 
Carry on...on topic

And I'll chime in once more, about me, the most important topic of all[].
 
Some may think I'm a fence sitter but I am not. I may say something support of CM, or of Clothier, or of Spiritdogs, in the same day, maybe in the same thread.
 
That's because I have a nasty habit of saying what I think or know based on my view of a subject, rather than what a person may want to hear. It cost me my job but I can't stop myself.

Ron,
it's an addiction, trust me.[]