If you like Cesar, who are your other role models?

This is not my area of expertise by ANY means, in fact, I know very little about training/behavior. But I will say, (and I'm sure it's not true for ALL his fans) my brother and sister-in-law are HUGE fans of his and try to practice his, whatever it's called, teachings. I hear people talk about him ALL THE TIME. I personally cannot watch his show because I don't get the National Geographic Channel. I used to so I've seen MAYBE 3 episodes.
Anyway, my opinion is, with the people I know that are fans of his, they seem to think that his way is THE way. They dangerously take what he does on his show as the gospel for dealing with not just their own dog(s), but seem to think that EVERYONE should apply his techniques. I don't know what his techniques are exactly, but I know that my brother believes in alpha rolling dogs (I wouldn't do it) and I've heard SEVERAL people talk about alpha rolling their dogs. From what I've been able to gather from other people, his ways seem quick fixy and possibly masking a problem instead of getting to the core of it and it seems he assumes that ALL dogs are the same or should be treated the same. There's no individuality in dog behavior, it seems, to him. And, crap, for all I know, he could be right. Crap, I'd love to know a little "tsscht" and a slight grab to Ella's shoulder would make her walkable on a leash and get along with every dog out there, but it appears unrealistic to me.
My brother and sister-in-law think he is the god of ALL THINGS DOGS and it DRIVES ME INSANE. If Cesar preaches it, it must be true. If he doesn't, it must be incorrect. There's no research there. There's no trial and error. It's kind of a scary mentality.
In fact, I posted about this on another board: I had my brother and sister-in-law over the day before Christmas and I was in and out of the kitchen doing some dinner preparations for the next day. I walked into my livingroom just in time to hear my sister saying, "oh, pit bulls are wonderful dogs, but what makes them different from other dogs is when they bite down on something, they lock down and you CANNOT get them to let go" Now, my sister-in-law LOVES pit bulls and always says that they are one of the best dogs. But when I heard this, I correct her right away and told her that it's a myth. And she got VERY indignant with me and said, "Yes they do, BECKY, they lock down. I just saw it the other day. Cesar demonstrated this on his own pit bulls."
Now, the ignorance blows my mind but what really peeved me the most was, not only was she WRONG, but she's the type of person that tries to convince others of things she feels strongly about. I can SO see her trying to convince someone else that pit bulls are wonderful dogs and then unleashing that little "fact". Anyone who feared pit bulls before is only going to fear them more after hearing that little "factoid". Which, in the end, is doing absolutely NOTHING for a breed that already has a bad reputation.
So, when did Cesar do this? That's the kind of crap that pisses me off. If this is so, he's wrong.

He's like those ab machines or that new pilates mechanism that they're selling on t.v. Sure, it looks SO simple, but in actuality, it's not. And in the case of dealing with a possibly dangerous dog, I think the simplicity factor of what he displays in his show, could be very dangerous.


I don't know. I'm sorry I rambled on and on, but I've never spoken much about Cesar Milan and just lately this has been getting under my skin. Plus I think that trainer/behaviorist guy that I brought Ella to preaches a lot of Cesar's philosophies.

I would comment but I don't want to get in trouble, in case I use caps or boldface for emphasis, and then get browbeat for worrying about that.
 
When you hit a dog, they aways remember it.
 

Who hit a dog, Ron?

Someone please explain the core of Cesar Milan to me.
Please don't make me watch hundreds of episodes of The Dog Whisperer to find out.

Who hit a dog, Ron?

 
It's called a metaphor.
 
As for explaining CM (oops, I used caps), in 25 words or less. We're often invited to read other books and sources, and I have, rather than have a style consolidated to a sound byte. I think you would have to read a book by CM or watch several of his shows. But, as can be evidenced here (oops, I used boldface) a number of people can watch the same episode and come away with different interpretations of what they saw.

spiritdogs,
               I think you will find that many CM supportes use other methods, too.
Many posters have owned dogs before CM ever showed up on tv.
 
I think the majority of CM supporters realize that he deals with very tough cases, and posters on this board don't have dogs in that extreme field.
 

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

And she got VERY indignant with me and said, "Yes they do, BECKY, they lock down. I just saw it the other day. Cesar demonstrated this on his own pit bulls."

 
Have you play that kids game about saying one thing to the ear and passing it from ear to ear to see what word comes out at the end (which is totally different than the first one said)
 
Well thats what happens also with the show, people see or hear one thing and the interpretation of it is totally different, i can also say that your sister in law was wrong because i did watch that show too, he actually said that pit bulls have a very powerfull bite and their jaw is very strong BUT he never said that locks down, and i remember because i thought about that myth too right there and how come tthen is not true
 
"Alpha rolling" is the biggest misconception in this type of methods, i've heard lots and lots of examples where the people was going for it when actually by walking the dog a little bit more would be enough, alpha rolling is one extreme technique that has to be used ONLY by a professional and ONLY when the dog is dangerous for the owner himself and could attack at any moment, i would never do an alpha roll to an aggressive dog and even if the dog is not aggressive that means he does not need it anyways
 
You should see the show more than just 3 times to realize how much the people is wrong about apply the right technique at the right moment
 
Actually CM recommends at the end of his book "The other end of the leash" by Patricia McConnell and has brought clicker training to help with some dogs, so as you can see he teaches that his method should not me the only one to use and in the TV show shows a note where it says that you might rather do a different method that works better for you and your dog, so for him and at least for me too is not only his way or the highway, i know that you can not teach commands to the dog without +R, it would be impossible

D'oh, I forgot, guys. This same sister-in-law gave me Cesar's book in the summer before I joined here. In fact, looking up stuff about Cesar led me to this place and that's how I found this place. I've only read the first 60 pages. It was a boring read for me because all that it is so far is Cesar talking about the dogs that lived on his grandpa's farm or something and then how he illegally came to the states and started working at a grooming place. Then he goes on to all the famous people he worked for. It also talked a lot about his love for dogs and how he was as a child.

I haven't gotten to what he actually DOES with dogs yet. I stopped reading it because I lost interest in Cesar. I started school, got busy, and got a great dog that didn't appear to need much behavior attention or training...until recently.


All I know about Cesar's work with dogs is what I saw in those 3 or so episodes I saw, what I've read on here, and what my sister-in-law and brother keep talking about. And I am aware that a lot of what goes on is how people interpret his show and then their own attitudes that make them think they can use his methods on their own dogs without any professional help or experience.

Excellent response, Spencer.
 
I'm one of those oddballs that can like both CM and Clothier, all in the same day. Interestingly enough, Clothier doesn't have post-graduate creds, either, such as a DVM or PhD. She is a breeder of GSDs. So, she, like CM has a long history of practical dog experience. And you will also see some similarities in their philosophies. A large difference is that Clothier won't handle an aggressive dog but refer you to a behaviorist. CM will handle the dog but does not advise anyone to do what he does in an extreme case without proper training and consultation. And will still recommend seeing a local trainer or behaviorist.
 
I understand other people's misgivings, too. People with no dog savvy can be misapplying CM techniques, whereas, if they were misapplying clicker training, it is a conception that they merely have a well-fed and confused dog. But marker training can have bad results, too. Treating when the dog is in agitated state can cause the dog to immediately go to agitation because that's how they get treats. And some dogs get in such a state that treats mean nothing. Been there, done that.
 
But I can't fault CM for the misapplication of others, nor does the misapplication by JQP invalidate what CM does. One could say that a person should be educated on how to handle a dog before they get one, just as one should be licensed before driving a car.
 

Who else in the dog world is a hero to you, and why?

 
I'm guessing that the question is asking if anyone who likes CM also has bothered to read books by others in the dog world.  I think this has been covered before by asking what books CM fans (I hate that word, but I'm tired and nothing else is popping into my head!) have also read. 
 
I like CM but I don't classify him as a "hero".  I don't have any heroes so to speak.  I read what many have to say and take the crux that I think they are trying to say.  I'm not sure why those that don't particularly like CM keep asking "what is his philosophy", and "what does he do with dogs"??  If you watch him and/or read his book you will then be enlightened to those answers.  If you don't, you won't.  You won't get the same answer from 2 different people most likely.  If I have an interest in learning about someone, I go pick up their book and find out myself.  I feel like we're asked the same questions over and  over again. 
 
I know why people like McConnell, Clothier and Kilcommons.  I get it.  I don't have to ask you to explain yourself or rattle off all of their accomplishments.  And, by saying "you" I don't mean you personally Anne.  I am referring to anybody that has asked those questions about CM.
 
I like CM's personality, (he's watchable to me) and I like watching all the goofy dog owners and their issues!  Kind of like the car accident I just have to look at!  I don't have a dog that needs any of rehab like he uses.  I do, however, use the NILIF and practice leadership building on my behalf.  Kato is not a dominant dog in any sense of the word, so he's fairly easy to train.  Using +R methods has worked for him. 

OK, so don't get hung up on the word "hero" or "fan".  I'm just interested in who else's philosophies appeal to the people who also like CM.  Instead of immediately defending CM yet again, why can't you just say who else you think has valuable training or behavior advice that you have taken?  That's really all I asked for in starting this thread.  What I am interested in is who would also appeal to the people who think CM is good, that's all.

Weird.  NO ONE bar Ron has replied to the OP.  Come on CM fans, who else do you admire?  Either for their sheer personality and affinity with dogs or for their astounding (possibly groundbreaking) techniques/philosophies?  Tried any yourself? did they work? 

spiritdogs,
At times I am a little confused about your approach to handling a situation.
When it comes to dogs you preach + R beyond a fault (correction is negative),
 
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Can you explain the difference to me?

Off topic and irrelevant,  verging on a personal attack against the OP IMO.  Obviously this isn't going to be the illuminating thread I thought it was.....  Shame.  Darned good idea for a topic IMO.

Not a personal attack, I was interested how spiritdogs approaches both situations, and what her train of thought was.

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