running out of aggr. excuses

    • Gold Top Dog

    running out of aggr. excuses

    I have a 9 month old english setter male named Russell Stover. I've had him since he was 6 weeks old (getting him early might have contributed). He is wonderful outdoors, he stays in the yard, is good with other dogs/cats/bugs etc... BUT.

    He attacked my little sister this morning.

    This aggression started right after i got him neutered in january. He sleeps next to my bed and my sister comes in to pet him and take him downstairs, this has become a ritual, usually prying him away with a treat. But she felt to see if he was tethered to my bed and he jumped up and bit into and held onto her arm! she is only 10 and he has been great with her otherwise. i was sleeping and immed. jumped up and smacked him in the face to stop him.

    He is excessively hyper, jumping up on people, nipping feet and hands... things i have been working on for months now. He refuses to sumbit to me or any other. i found that tackling and sitting on him when he disobeys helps a lot. i read it in a bird dog training book. but he just goes back to his normal evil self.

    this behavior isn't all the time, but he likes to pick on my little brother because he is always jealous. The little kids are always getting nipped. But... a loyal dog owner... i make excuses for his bad behavior... i am running out of excuses, i am going to school in the fall and am starting to think i should find him another home. only as last resort, i would appreciate ANY tips.

    Thanks --
    • Gold Top Dog
    Your pup is not evil, nor is he agressive.  He's an untrained pup who is acting in a manner consistent with being untrained.
     
    I strongly suggest a GOOD positive reinforcement trainer right away.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yes, stop making excuses. You're only fooling yourself. And someone will get hurt as a result. The dog needs to learn the pecking order around your house - ALL humans and then him. You need to practice nothing in life is free (google for an explanation) and your family members need to practice this too.
     
    It's going to take a lot of work on your part but start by enrolling in a behavior/obediance class. Search for listings in your area. There are many dog trainers who are experienced in this type of thing. You family members should also attend classes so they build the confidence they need to act as a leader above the dog.
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Definitely get him in an obedience class, and have your sister work with him too. He is still a puppy, and has lots to learn!
     
    Good luck!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Don't sit on him, don't tackle him, don't smack him in the face, don't let him sleep in your bed anymore (it only encourages the protectiveness that can lead to biting), and get to a dog training class ASAP! You can't just step into your dog's life and expect him to "submit" to you if he has know idea what that means. Look up NILIF (nothing in life is free) and get started with that.
    • Gold Top Dog
    i think i worded it wrong, it sounds like i beat him... i don't. the book specialized in stubborn bird dog training. The man who wrote it gave several methods and was highly recommended by my breeder. The 'tackle' method WORKS, he just 'forgets'. He sleeps NEXT to my bed. he can't sleep in a crate or he barks incessently for hours (regardless of (verbal) discipline and MONTHS of trying) he can not be left alone or he eats everything. Believe me, i've tried everything BUT a trainer. but his problems wouldn't be seen during training because they only arise at home when he has nothing better to do.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I think that if you've been working on something for months and still haven't fixed the problem, you need to find another approach.  And, you need the trainer.  Maybe s/he won't see the problems, but maybe s/he will, and actually, the point of a trainer is to teach YOU how to teach your dog.
     
    I have stubborn german shepherds.  They are big and very strong.  I don't use any physical corrections with them and I still get exactly what I want from them.
    • Gold Top Dog
    He is excessively hyper, jumping up on people, nipping feet and hands..

     
    this is normal puppy behavior. Puppies do this until taught otherwise.
    1) he's hyper. This means he needs more exercise. He's a high-energy bird dog. He needs to run hard for a couple of hours a day. Every day. Does he fetch? that's your best bet for exercising him. Walking on leash doesn't do it for these high-energy dogs.
    2) he jumps up. Teach him to sit when greeting people.
    3) he nips. Dogs play by biting each other. He's trying to play. Reduce his excess energy as per point #1, and teach him it's not ok to mouth people: if his mouth touches a person, the person should yelp really loudly and ignore the dog. Any other response, such as pushing the dog away, simply encourages the dog to nip some more.
     
    As to the tackling thing, stop it NOW. What is that supposed to teach a dog?  if your dog disobeys you, it means you haven't taught the dog what you want the dog to do. Dogs don't speak english. You have to carefully show them what your commands mean, and then you have to motivate the dog to obey your commands.
     
    The biting of the sister?  well, ever heard the phrase "let sleeping dogs lie"?  she should call the dog off the bed, not lean over and feel around for a tether- a startled sleeping dog may indeed bite.
    • Gold Top Dog
    OK, you've got a multiple number of symptoms that add up to two problems:  Your dog is not getting enough exercise and he's not been trained effectively.
     
    First: You've got a sporting dog.  This boy needs to run, run and run some more.  When you have had enough that's when he is getting started.  Playing in the backyard is not enough.  He needs daily walks-several miles worth.
     
    Second:  YOU need to be in obedience school with your dog.  The training isn't just for the dog it's to teach you how to relate and communicate with your dog.  That is the only way he's going to become well behaved.
     
    If you're not prepared to do these things, then it's certainly time to find a rescue organization for him.  To me it sounds like you went into dog ownership without a clear view of how total it is.
    • Gold Top Dog
    i spent all this morning researching dog trainers. None of them are within my budget. I am somewhat offended that you think i am a novice. I have had 4 dogs including a F. Shepherd, F. Husky and a rescued M. labrador. some of the toughest breeds. I was a dogwalker for 6 years, raised a seeing eye dog and worked in a 72 dog kennel. I have never come across anything like my dog.

    i will continue to research trainers for one that i can trust that isn't $300 an hour.

    p.s. i started Nilif and it seems to help, that you for that advice. btw- Xerxes is gorgeous! i always loved that breed.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Where are you located?  Perhaps some of us can recommend someone near you?
     
    No one, I think, is suggesting you need a private trainer for $300 an hour.  A good obedience class at a dog training center would be a great place to start and those don't cost that much money. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    A basic group obedience class should run you about $100-$175 for an 8-10 week session (classes once a week for an hour).
    • Gold Top Dog
    you're right... i run him rugged playing fetch and walking and going to the woods. i understood that he was a hyper dog when i got him. I take him to 'set' birds it's a lot of fun and drains his energy flushing them.

    The jumping isn't on strangers, it is strictly with family walking away or just arriving home, he gets frustrated  when we leave/come and 'tags' us with his paws, like he needs to tag a base. The jumping is gradually getting better. It is at an all-time minimum.

    and i didn't clarify about the biting. the dog was awake. on the floor beside my bed. my siblings always come in and say hi in the morning. its just odd. maybe he wasn't feeling well. i dont know, but thanks for the tips!
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Russell Stover

    i spent all this morning researching dog trainers. None of them are within my budget. I am somewhat offended that you think i am a novice. I have had 4 dogs including a F. Shepherd, F. Husky and a rescued M. labrador. some of the toughest breeds. I was a dogwalker for 6 years, raised a seeing eye dog and worked in a 72 dog kennel. I have never come across anything like my dog.

    i will continue to research trainers for one that i can trust that isn't $300 an hour.

    p.s. i started Nilif and it seems to help, that you for that advice. btw- Xerxes is gorgeous! i always loved that breed.


     
    Thanks for that!  He seems to use his looks to his advantage.[;)]
     
    I don't think you are an inexperienced dog person, it's just that you may not have had experience with this particular type of behavior or this type of dog.
     
    I, too, thought I knew what was up when I got my guy.  After all I grew up with GSDs and an Akita.  The truth is I had to get more tools in my "tool box" to paraphrase another that frequents these boards. 
     
    I liken dog training to a journey-there are alot of ways you can get there, but not all of them have the same direction.  Sometimes a particular "road" is closed, or a training method isn't working.  It's pointless to keep going that direction, so you have to stop, back up and choose another direction.  I ran into that scenario with my hound.  I had to realize first of all that no matter what I did, my dog wouldn't willingly follow me off of a cliff- but if I showed him that at the bottom there was a huge steak, he'd find his way down and meet me there.
     
    The same thing applies in a different way to you.  You came to the board asking for some advice.  We questioned your methods, because most of us know that those methods might work "in the now" to stop behavior, but over the long run the dog hasn't learned anything useful. 
     
    Training a dog, no matter how "unruly" that dog is, can be fun for both of you.  But it takes time and the commitment to make that training stick, as well as the commitment to try new approaches when one fails.  You mentioned many behaviors that sound, to me, as if you tolerated them for whatever reason, when the pup was smaller, but now that he's larger those behaviors are inappropriate.
     
    You could probably try reading "Playtraining Your Dog" by Patricia Burnham- although it primarily deals with training sighthounds-the concepts are pretty universal with dogs.  Yes, it deals mostly with obedience-but those same concepts can be applied to other behaviors as well.
     
    You could also google "clicker training."  I think there are some free videos that could help you get started.
     
    It's all about using the tools you have correctly and adding new tools as you go along.  I hope this helps you out.  It's not necessarily about hiring a $300/hr trainer. 
     
    If you'd like to PM me regarding this, please feel free to do so.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thank you for your good advice. I admit to certain allowances in his puppyhood, we all have; because they are SOOO CUTE! but all of my other dogs knew when playtime was up.

    I tried clicker training, it was unsuccessful. He responds really well to verbal commands (sit/come/shake/down/off/halt/wait(when walking too far ahead)/go lay down/don't touch it/heel/find it/'birds!'/drop it etc) he just won't take 'no'. He'll get it eventually, i know, it just puzzles me why its taking so darn long! i work with him consistantly.

    I am going to try a new method that came to me last night in bed (don't they all), i think i am going to start him with basic agility, so he knows he works for me. Hopefully this will remove some energy. I thought he'd be good with frisbee (because he's so darn good at jumping) but he lets it whack him in the head. He's a big knucklehead.

    The most successful training was with his remote field dog training collar, reccommended by dozens of hunting/stubborn dog owners. He walks off the leash, stops in his tracks when being bad, and stops barking/jumping/biting when 'stimulated' with a low voltage correction. But he is slowly immunizing to the collar (not from overuse, don't get me wrong). i almost get no response from it. I only use it when he isn't responding to verbal corrections.

    I might have found a trainer, keep your fingers crossed!

    And again, thank you so much for your advice :)