I HAVE A SERIUOS PROBLEM WITH MY 2 MONTH OLD PUPS!

I thought you did not want to tangle…errr…tango anymore? 
 
Added:  Cause I don't.

I have not read this entire thread, as I am sure, that by this point in time, it has turned into a circular argument about which training method will work for your dogs. I am confident that one or more posters has asked for specific experiences with food aggression issues, in an attepmt to prove their method best.
 
I am not here to support either “school” of training methods, as I would assume that both “schools” are already very well represented. I will, instead, tell you my family member#%92s experience & how he is handling his dogs with food aggression.
 
My younger brother has 2 dogs, a 12 month old Doberman, & an 8 month old Boxer mix. My brother is the obvious “pack leader.” He has worked very hard to establish himself as the leader of these 2 dominant breed dogs. He can successfully walk both dogs together, he can start & stop play with one word, & both dogs look to him to make decisions.
 
Two months ago, the Dobe became more & more possessive of her food. She would growl & charge the Boxer mix at & during feeding time. There were no other aggression issues between the dogs. Both dogs were fed in their own bowls, but were fed side by side. My brother decided that being he is the “pack leader” he would be able to manage this issue by standing in between the two dogs at feeding time. This method did work for about a month & a half, but then it went horribly wrong.
 
Two weeks ago, while eating, the Boxer mix raised her head, with mild interest, towards the Dobe#%92s food. My brother stepped towards the Boxer mix & gave his normal Shhh to redirect the dog. As he stepped towards the Boxer mix, the Dobe charged. The Dobe attempted to attack the Boxer mix, but in the process bit my brother in the calf. My brother was obviously distracted by being bit, & the dogs began to fight. When the fight was finally broken up, both dogs & my brother had sustained significant damage.
 
The Boxer mix had to have it#%92s tail removed, because the tail was not salvageable. She had a very large laceration on her throat, that had to be stitched, & a drain tube had to be placed in a very deep laceration on her shoulder.
 
The Dobe had shallow lacerations all over her throat & front legs. She sustained a laceration along her right lower eyelid that required surgery to repair. She also sustained a horizontal tear in the ear that had to be sutured. Now, what was a very pretty ear crop, looks crooked & the ear that did stand erect, now leans out to the side.
 
My brother received 27 stitches on his calf. He had 2 puncture wounds that hospital staff elected to leave open, due to the likelihood of infection. Because there was a human bitten, both dogs were forced to be held in rabies quarantine for 10 days as well. Fortunately, animal control did allow my brother#%92s vet to handle the quarantine, so the dogs could receive the medical attention that they needed.
 
After spending over $2300.00 in vet bills alone. My brother has now decided that although he is still the “leader,” the dogs should be fed in their own separate spaces. He has began feeding one dog in each bedroom, & currently he is having no issues. He gives “high value” treats separately as well. The dogs still play together, walk together, & sleep together. They just don#%92t eat together anymore. It was a very expensive & scary lesson to be learned, when common sense could have been applied & the whole situation could have been avoided.

Wow, terrible way to learn a lesson.  I'm sorry it happened.  

Dogs that don't aggress against adults may decide that the three year old reaching under your Thanksgiving table to retrieve the wishbone he just dropped, needs a face bite to convince him to give it up.

When I was just three years old I was bit in the face by an adult Rottweiler, trying to take something away.  Luckily, I didn't need stitches (there was broken skin on my cheek and above my eyes) and I only remember after-the-fact.  I'm glad I don't remember, b/c two of my uncles had Rotties and even after this incident, they are not a breed I fear.  But yeah, teaching a dog that one person is a pack leader doesn't really help as far as actually training the food aggression out of the dog (which in some cases cannot be done) and only manages the situation when said pack leader is in the immediate vicinity.  Where childrens' safety is concerned, I prefer an approach that prevents a situation like this from even occuring, rather than one that invites it.

Bevo, that's a very scary story!  But thanks for sharing, it's definitely an experience relevant to the OP.

The only time I've ever been injured by any dogs have been when I got in the middle of them trying to get to each other. I've never required medical attention but I've gotten some pretty nice bruises and punctures. They can respect the heck out of you but if you get in the way of them trying to prove a point to one another, they don't even see you there. Tunnel vision sets in. It's not a phenomenon to be dismissed lightly.

WOW!!  I have chills.  I have only seen one dog fight and never want to ever see another, it was very scary.  This is very important to the OP and her trying to figure out the right path to take with these puppies.  Thanks for sharing Bevolasvegas  and thank the lord everyone is Ok eventhough the after math was ugly.
 

I am so in shock that folks who rescue and deal with a pack of dogs are questioned........just because,they  do not own the right breed at the time a person has a question about a certain breed..........
 
 
I don't care what breed one has owned......rescueing different breeds and working with all those dogs gives a person a certain standard...............they may not be a certified trainer(argh)......but have plenty of experience.........IMO, those  eople are super experienced..............

DPU - I tried to quote you, but I cannot get it to work, so this is in response to the post you made two pages back about how you cannot imagine having to separate them because food is such a big part of daily life.

yes, it is. But, sometimes with certain breeds, especially - separation is a risk you need to take and consider. I have three - yes - THREE - male dobermans in my house. Most responsible rescues and breeders won't allow anything of the sort, because its a HARD life.I adore my dogs - two are mine (one - the elderly one -  is a perma-foster), and the third belongs to a tenant of mine that is also a good friend - and I work hard to make sure we are NOT a statistic.

What we are saying is, having littermates of a breed like a doberman, it can be a very REAL and PRESENT danger that things will go wrong and you need to be prepared for this. Dobermans are drivey working breeds and are known for some degree of dog aggression. They are not goldens, they are not labs, and they are NOT pack dogs. I grew up with three danes in the household and they were cake compared to living with a doberman.

My life consists of baby gates, crate and rotate, and always having at least as many people as dogs around, when the dogs are together. My own males are allowed together with me at all times except for meals, but no other dog can be introduced to the situation because we have a balance and it CANNOT be interrupted. I'd love nothing more than to have dogs I can leave loose together unattended (though I consider that irresponsible), dogs I can just toss food on the ground and not be concerned - but that is not life with a doberman, and certainly not life with multiple males.

I don't have bad dogs - I have a wonderful young male who is quite possibly one of the most stable dogs I have ever met - but he is a dog, and he is a male doberman - as he matures, he becomes less tolerant of rude dog behavior (especially intact males). I am not stupid enough to believe that any amount of training is going to stop him from responding to an aggressor if the situation was right - he will not start a fight but he would most certainly finish it.

I simply do not believe that any amount of training is going to prevent my dogs from being dogs if push comes to shove - and I would rather be proactive and prevent it from happening. Even now, I am prepared for the fact that my two males may someday not get along, which is why I only have these two. I don't have to wait for something to go REALLY wrong to know it could happen. It's the same reason the elderly male, who has a bite history, is simply put away when people come over, especially if I will not be home. Why risk it, or assume that my training will be enough to stop him,  when I can keep him safe and definitely bite free, by not exposing him to people if I am not directly controlling the situation? Miranadobes trainer is one I have personally worked with for my previous dobe, who also came to me with a bite history - and above all, despite all my training and work with him (I made him my first competition dog!), the crux of my handling of him was to NOT GIVE HIM OPPORTUNITIES TO BITE.

The doberman is not an easy breed to raise and own for many reasons, from activity level, intelligence, exercise requirements, how challenging they can be, etc. They require diligence and in some ways, a higher level of responsibility that many other breeds I have lived with and been exposed to - this does not make them bad dogs. This makes them NOT DOGS FOR EVERYONE. And when those of us that own and love these dogs see an accident waiting to happen, that is why we speak up. Preventing problems is the best way to avoid them - rather than trying to play catch up later on.

My life consists of baby gates, crate and rotate, and always having at least as many people as dogs around, when the dogs are together. My own males are allowed together with me at all times except for meals, but no other dog can be introduced to the situation because we have a balance and it CANNOT be interrupted. I'd love nothing more than to have dogs I can leave loose together unattended (though I consider that irresponsible), dogs I can just toss food on the ground and not be concerned - but that is not life with a doberman, and certainly not life with multiple males.

I do feel for you....I have three German Shepherds.....1 Husky/Chow mix, 1 Husky/Mal mix......all males.........and they can be unattended for hours..........

ORIGINAL: espencer

You (just like everyone else) never answer my question, have YOU done it? i dont think i'm being rude but nobody ever answers that question

Espencer, I like the advice you give.  Your advice first introduces calm (because the OP was paniced) and then you proceed to address each issue.  What I do not understand is why your "technique" is different from my approach.  You recommend supervision, standing in between the two dogs, and then correcting when bad behavior starts.  By standing in between the 2 dogs, are you not the barrier?  By blocking the female dog from getting at the other dish, isn't that what the secure baby gate does and teaches the dog place?  Please reconcile the difference for me.  This is why I stated that the end results of the dogs happily eating together would be the same

I've never tried the "stand between dogs" method, but it seems to me it's not really a training method like using a baby gate. A baby gate is very neutral and may actually teach the dogs to calmly eat. You standing there is not neutral-- you are obviously "guarding" the dogs from each other, an activity that requires you to be there. The day you decide to not stand there they will go for each other. Apparently, as experienced by people who posted above, they may be willing to go for each other even if you are there.
 
I find that dogs don't like to eat near each other. It seems to make them nervous. I have my "feeding stations" set up so none of the dogs can actually see each other while eating. They can relax and enjoy their meals in peace. 

[sm=no%20no%20smiley.gif]Hey, why don't you call a truce! [sm=drinking47.gif] Has anyone noticed that dobermann is not posting anymore?  Is anyone else curious to know what dobermann decided to do? You all offer good advise but need to pay more attention to your e-manners and not be so ost Agressive It is really not very helpful to the rest of us who are looking to you who have so much more experience when you digress into a pissing match.[sm=headbang2.gif]

ORIGINAL: DPU

Espencer, I like the advice you give.  Your advice first introduces calm (because the OP was paniced) and then you proceed to address each issue.  What I do not understand is why your "technique" is different from my approach.  You recommend supervision, standing in between the two dogs, and then correcting when bad behavior starts.  By standing in between the 2 dogs, are you not the barrier?  By blocking the female dog from getting at the other dish, isn't that what the secure baby gate does and teaches the dog place?  Please reconcile the difference for me.  This is why I stated that the end results of the dogs happily eating together would be the same

 
I see your point, i dont have any problem if you help yourself with a babygate,  unfortunately a baby gate can not address the behavior in case they send signals to eachother while they are eating, the baby gate does not stop challenging body lenguage, direct looks to eachother's eyes, etc.
 
You can use a babygate but you must be there to stop those signals, if you put a babygate and leave you dont know if the other dog just got closer the most he can to the gate and started "challenging" the other dog, maybe is not like that in your house but is definitly a posibility
 
Maybe if you dont have the confidence enough a baby gate for sure will be a huge help, you dont have to be in between but at least you need to be there

Espencer, please re-read my approach.  The one and only thing that I have added to the "technique" is a baby gate.  The dogs can see each other and I am standing right there in front of the baby gates to do whatever I need to do.  I know it is only a temporary situation and soon they will be able to eat freely in their own dishes, their own place, and without any negatives going on.  During this time, I do not want to project an attitude of confidence.  I want the dogs to feel my energy of calm and peace. 

ORIGINAL: DPU

Espencer, please re-read my approach.  The one and only thing that I have added to the "technique" is a baby gate.  The dogs can see each other and I am standing right there in front of the baby gates to do whatever I need to do.  I know it is only a temporary situation and soon they will be able to eat freely in their own dishes, their own place, and without any negatives going on.  During this time, I do not want to project an attitude of confidence.  I want the dogs to feel my energy of calm and peace. 

 
I'm sorry i  re read your first post but it didnt clarify if you were there at that moment or not, now that you are telling me that you actually are present i can tell you that IMO thats a great approach, specially for people a little afraid of their own dogs or that they dont want to get bitten (which of course is not your case at all)
 
I think that you are doing great []