I HAVE A SERIUOS PROBLEM WITH MY 2 MONTH OLD PUPS!

Hi Dobedvm,

I re-read my "I can't imagine” post and I did not realize what a powerful statement I made.  That statement combined with Denise m's post is what I feel all dog owners should try to achieve for their pets.  Never give up maximizing the dog's happiness.  I would add that if you are in a management mode, the owner should ping the dog every now and then to detect if the original behavior problem has improved in the slightest.  I do this all the time with a SA dog.

My contact with Doberman breed is decades old and occurred in my childhood, a neighbor's dog named Tina.  Very positive experience.  I, like you are always aware of a dog's unpredictable nature in certain situations and with that awareness, comes safety precautions.  You own your Doberman experience and knowledge just as Miranadobe and Bevolasvegas does.  From the threads the 3 of you post in, I have a sense of some of the challenges you have with the breed.   Mostly, I like the tales told about Bevos.  Especially the burglar story where Bevos tackled the intruder and held him down with his mouth on the intruder's throat until the police arrived.  Bevolasvegas seems to have great success with Bevos and you may want to swap stories and training techniques. 

With regards to you growing up with 3 Great Danes and characterizing your experience as …”they were cake compared to living with a doberman”…...that is ok with me and I accept it as a valid point in discussing breeds.  The Great Dane breed is very strong and very stable.  I attribute their presence in my house as a major contribution to rehabbing all types of mixed fosters.   It is these types of variables that adds to the peace in my house

I follow the same feeding philosophy as espencer.
 
Works great for me. []
 
 

My dogs all eat in the kitchen with no problems. I stick around but basically to be sure they are finishing their meals. I want to know if one isn't feeling well. However, they are very different dogs, with very different backgrounds than the OP's situation.

specially for people a little afraid of their own dogs

Or, when trying to control other factors like little kids and other housepets that should *not* be acting as a pack leader (standing between the dogs) and don't have enough common sense to not reach into a dog's bowl.  It's not always about fear, but being able to control the environment so that the pack leader can work with the dogs without interruption or excess liability.

Like me, they don't give a rat's butt about the Pilgrims.

 
Now, that's a piquant turn of phrase. I think you get points for that deftly executed bon mot.[]

This serious thread can not end with that last post.
 
Good luck to the OP.  I hope everything works out and please come back and give us an update.  You pups can grow up on I-Dog.

ORIGINAL: BEVOLASVEGAS

I have not read this entire thread, as I am sure, that by this point in time, it has turned into a circular argument about which training method will work for your dogs. I am confident that one or more posters has asked for specific experiences with food aggression issues, in an attepmt to prove their method best.

I am not here to support either "school” of training methods, as I would assume that both "schools” are already very well represented. I will, instead, tell you my family member's experience & how he is handling his dogs with food aggression.

My younger brother has 2 dogs, a 12 month old Doberman, & an 8 month old Boxer mix. My brother is the obvious "pack leader.” He has worked very hard to establish himself as the leader of these 2 dominant breed dogs. He can successfully walk both dogs together, he can start & stop play with one word, & both dogs look to him to make decisions.

Two months ago, the Dobe became more & more possessive of her food. She would growl & charge the Boxer mix at & during feeding time. There were no other aggression issues between the dogs. Both dogs were fed in their own bowls, but were fed side by side. My brother decided that being he is the "pack leader” he would be able to manage this issue by standing in between the two dogs at feeding time. This method did work for about a month & a half, but then it went horribly wrong.

Two weeks ago, while eating, the Boxer mix raised her head, with mild interest, towards the Dobe's food. My brother stepped towards the Boxer mix & gave his normal Shhh to redirect the dog. As he stepped towards the Boxer mix, the Dobe charged. The Dobe attempted to attack the Boxer mix, but in the process bit my brother in the calf. My brother was obviously distracted by being bit, & the dogs began to fight. When the fight was finally broken up, both dogs & my brother had sustained significant damage.

The Boxer mix had to have it's tail removed, because the tail was not salvageable. She had a very large laceration on her throat, that had to be stitched, & a drain tube had to be placed in a very deep laceration on her shoulder.

The Dobe had shallow lacerations all over her throat & front legs. She sustained a laceration along her right lower eyelid that required surgery to repair. She also sustained a horizontal tear in the ear that had to be sutured. Now, what was a very pretty ear crop, looks crooked & the ear that did stand erect, now leans out to the side.

My brother received 27 stitches on his calf. He had 2 puncture wounds that hospital staff elected to leave open, due to the likelihood of infection. Because there was a human bitten, both dogs were forced to be held in rabies quarantine for 10 days as well. Fortunately, animal control did allow my brother's vet to handle the quarantine, so the dogs could receive the medical attention that they needed.

After spending over $2300.00 in vet bills alone. My brother has now decided that although he is still the "leader,” the dogs should be fed in their own separate spaces. He has began feeding one dog in each bedroom, & currently he is having no issues. He gives "high value” treats separately as well. The dogs still play together, walk together, & sleep together. They just don't eat together anymore. It was a very expensive & scary lesson to be learned, when common sense could have been applied & the whole situation could have been avoided.

I hope your brother and the dogs recover well.  Despite your story, however, I would be willing to bet that some people will still insist on "testing" their theories, and will meet the same end. 

snownose, it's true that there are a lot of rescuers with top notch experience, who have skills equivalent to trainers and behaviorists in fact.  But, that doesn't mean all of them do, and that they have had extensive enough all breed experience to comment with any degree of expertise on a breed specific issue.  But, the wise rescuer does have access to trusted trainers to whom they can go for advice.  I wouldn't advise someone on a whelping issue, but I would certainly have a vet or breeder to turn to.  Same diff.

Hey, espencer, how close do you live to bevo's brother?  Maybe they could use your expertise.  [:'(]     Maybe you'd even end up with your own TV show... [sm=censored.gif]

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs


Hey, espencer, how close do you live to bevo's brother?  Maybe they could use your expertise.  [:'(]    

 
I dont know, how far is he from St Louis?, i would love to help him [], i dont know why he applied the technique and after one month and a half he still was having problems, it should not take that long at all, it does not take one month an a half for the dogs to realize what the owner is trying to comunicate, based on that result the dogs actually might never realized anything at all
 
I dont know either why the brother wanted to correct the boxer for just raising his head, is not like the dogs should have to have their faces sticked into their plates untill they finish and if not they will be corrected
 
Those two points are clear signals that maybe the brother actually didnt know at all what he was doing, maybe he was having the wrong idea of what a good "pack leader" is

maybe he was having the wrong idea of what a good "pack leader" is

i've never seen an alpha dog attempt to stop two dogs from fighting. No dominant dog would stand between two submissive dogs while they eat, or care in the least if they squabble over food. Espencer, sometimes I wonder if you've ever even met a real dog....

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

No dominant dog would stand between two submissive dogs while they eat, or care in the least if they squabble over food.

 
And thats according to who? I wonder sometimes if you are scared of your own dogs

Seconding Mudpuppy.

Espencer, I have similar questions about how much experience you have with actual dogs over long periods of time. Most of the "strategies" you suggest will work with most dogs once or twice, but will tend to create more problems than solutions over time.

Um spence, you have seen great danes, right?

I wonder sometimes if you are scared of your own dogs

 
Wise people prevent injuries to themselves. When I was about growing up I got in between two St. Bernards who were actively trying to kill each other. It was a most unpleasant experience and yep I'd definately be afraid to do it again.
 
Being older and much better educated about dogs than I was, you probably wouldn't make the same mistake. Using a garbage can lid to protect oneself against one fearful, mid-sized dog isn't considered imprudent. Trying to pull apart a pair of St. Bernards or Great Danes is most definately imprudent.

Trying to pull apart a pair of St. Bernards or Great Danes is most definately imprudent.

I dunno... depends what your goals are. If your goal is to stop the fight in the easiest way, then yes. You are right.

If it's about feeding the chip on your shoulder, then I don't know. Maybe it would be best to get in the middle. You'd live, wind up with some battlescars, create a prolonged drama that is sure to impress someone, and feel like a real bigman!

ORIGINAL: fisher6000

Seconding Mudpuppy.

Espencer, I have similar questions about how much experience you have with actual dogs over long periods of time. Most of the "strategies" you suggest will work with most dogs once or twice, but will tend to create more problems than solutions over time.

[sm=drinking47.gif]  Any of us can read a book and watch a show and beleive in what we see and read and preach it as rotocal.    Really using the techniques (which I do) and learning when they are appropriate or not is key.  To offer suggestions to newbies that a pro should be using is not good advice.

As for BEVOS brother - He knew his dogs, knew the techniques he was using to BEVO stated he had very well trained dogs and who also knew who was leader, it just backfired, that's why sometime you need to use alternative tool box items.   To assume that becasue your method didn't work they were doing it wrong is a crazy statement from someone who dosen't have any expierence with this.