I HAVE A SERIUOS PROBLEM WITH MY 2 MONTH OLD PUPS!

Is not "raising littermates" off topic? i believe that the OP was having problems with a food aggressive dog, the dogs in the future could have leash aggression, separation anxiety, dog aggression, lack of exersice, hip problems, etc. etc. etc should we also talk about those too?
 
OP had a problem, OP already is working on it with something that worked for that situation (as the OP already said), why are we now trying to fine negative points to talk about?
 
If i go to a leash aggression thread, should i talk about separation anxiety also? because it could happen in the future, maybe not but it could
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Luvmyswissy, we are saying the same thing.  Regardless of whether the FA is mild or extreme, it does not belong in the home and by your experience and mine, the situation can be turned around.  You don#%92t advocate giving up the dog and you don#%92t give up on the dog.  Same here.  Yes, fostering is a “potshot”.  Especially when you take in a dog that you know nothing about.  With regards to my experience, I only disclosed what needs to be disclosed.  You would be surprised at all that I have experience and my training skills in dealing with behavior problems.
 
Thank you for the reference on littermates.  This shows I did it right and I did it right all on my own.  Why it took 6 months to provide one reference is beyond me.  Going forward I will drop the use of “taboo” and “myth” and post a copy of your post.  See how easy it is to influence fellow members. 
 
Question, I gather from your earlier post that it did not matter if the dogs were related or not.  That you can still encounter this “Littermate Syndrome”.  Is that correct?

ORIGINAL: DPU

Luvmyswissy, we are saying the same thing.  Regardless of whether the FA is mild or extreme, it does not belong in the home and by your experience and mine, the situation can be turned around.  You don't advocate giving up the dog and you don't give up on the dog.  Same here.  Yes, fostering is a "potshot”.  Especially when you take in a dog that you know nothing about.  With regards to my experience, I only disclosed what needs to be disclosed.  You would be surprised at all that I have experience and my training skills in dealing with behavior problems.

Thank you for the reference on littermates.  This shows I did it right and I did it right all on my own.  Why it took 6 months to provide one reference is beyond me.  Going forward I will drop the use of "taboo” and "myth” and post a copy of your post.  See how easy it is to influence fellow members. 

Question, I gather from your earlier post that it did not matter if the dogs were related or not.  That you can still encounter this "Littermate Syndrome”.  Is that correct?

 
Well my behaviorist didn't label it with a name but yes I do beleive that is what they wanted to avoid.  And I only referenced your expierence as such becasue you called yourself  JQP so lease no affense meant.

ORIGINAL: luvmyswissy

And I only referenced your expierence as such becasue you called yourself  JQP so lease no affense meant.

 
You can never offend me.  If you call yourself JQP there is little expectations.  If you call yourself a professional trainer, there are a lot of expectations and you better be on toes.  Make sense now?

Is not "raising littermates" off topic? i believe that the OP was having problems with a food aggressive dog, the dogs in the future could have leash aggression, separation anxiety, dog aggression, lack of exersice, hip problems, etc. etc. etc should we also talk about those too?

 
I think that those aware of the potential dangers in this situation who failed to give the OP a warning, which will hopefully lead to them finding an excellent local trainer ASAP, would be remiss in their duties as dog people to ignore the potential consequences.
 
I'd compare it to asking if Rimadyl is good for my dog's dysplasia. It may help the dysplasia a great deal, but I'd also want experienced people to warn me of the potential for damage to the liver rather than give an answer which works in the short term but may kill my dog over the longer time frame.
 
Rarely is any situation just what appears at the surface level and many knowledgeable people have considered the entire situation including the safety of the terrier before giving their replies.

 
OP,
 
Like I said before, I hope you are able to take away A LOT of good information from this thread.  I think that you were given some very good insight not just to the problem at hand but to your life with these cute little puppy breathed darlings.  Good luck!
 
 Keep us posted.

To the OP - I'll try not to do too much repeating of what's already been said here. It's going to be hard to know at this point just the extent of the (potential) damage done from being seperated so early from their mother and littermates. The standing in between them technique may in fact be successful at the moment. However, please be ready - when they hit about 15 months old (give or take) and start entering social maturity all bets may be off and you may seemingly suddenly have *serious* fights on your hands. With you in the middle. Sometimes dogs who are FA also are quite content to resource guard other things... such as their owner, and their owner's space. Please keep that in mind, OK?

I have a FA bitch, and several other dogs who don't believe in backing down. I *have* managed to get bit (to the tune of surgery on a finger) from being in the middle of a squabble that my immediate presence in between them didn't diffuse... all over the empty food bowls that were laying on top of a crate while camping. At the time I understood very little about this type of thing. I am glad I'm a quick learner. [] Seperating two 7 week old puppies who are scrapping is going to be considerably easier than seperating these same dogs when they're grown. I really, really don't want to see you in that situation.

My dogs are small, but yours won't be. Please keep your eyes open to changes in the future that may indicate that the dogs really *should* be seperated totally for mealtimes. I only say this because you really don't want to give them the opportunity to hurt you or themselves, and you don't want to give them the opportunity to continue to rehearse fighting.

I do feed all five of my dogs in crates. I do so because I want feeding time to be non-stressful for them. It works, and everyone is happy. None of my dogs feel now as if they have to guard their food... one of them even lies down and slowly eats his food one little piece at a time. They make a fine pack, by the way, it doesn't seem to have damaged them. Matter of fact, I'll say that seperating them for feeding has enhanced their ability to happily co-exist.

Good luck with your pups - I hope everything works out. I agree with the others that the situation would be better for everyone were you to only have one pup, but I respect your decision that they both must be kept. My biggest concern at this moment are the damages done to both pups due to being taken from their littermates and mother so early and how that (and their genetics as well) may affect them as they mature.

No i didnt, in fact you missed mine

I just read that you were having a problem with your dog, not to be rude but a problem that is not doberman exclusive

My question is: have you applied my technique with food agression?

 
I apologize that this wasn't clear enough:

She and her littermate brother were purchased and raised together in a manner like you describe.

I wouldn't have posted it otherwise, had it not been in the topic of food aggressive Doberman littermate puppies.... that is what Sage and her brother were in the beginning.  The owners fed them together in the same place and tried to manage them the way you described.  I don't know how to get any more on-topic than that.
 
And to clarify, the dog was not mine, nor a friend's.  It was turned into the rescue where I worked.  She is not the issue here, however, these puppies are, and my sincere hope remains for the OP to get in-person training assistance.

and my sincere hope remains for the OP to get in-person training assistance.

Just wanted to pull this out - I agree.

ORIGINAL: miranadobe

The owners fed them together in the same place and tried to manage them the way you described

 
Ok so we need to hear from the owners what exactly they were doing, we would have to know if they received the same advice or the "technique" that they were using was having some differences, if not then you just have stories from 3rd parties that as we know can get confused really easy, were YOU there at the moment of being performed or you just trust what they said without actually being there?, did you see it or is just like "well at least so far thats what they told me", so as you see your allegations have a really poor fundation
 
You (just like everyone else) never answer my question, have YOU done it? i dont think i'm being rude but nobody ever answers that question

I don't believe that I was said I had a negative experience with littermates.  I believe that I said I would consider releasing littermates to a very experienced dog owner only.  I didn't have "problems", my statement is that it is far more work.
 
As for my dogs eating in their crates, thats where they eat.  Period.  They are not crated while I eat, only while THEY eat, and I have no concerns about food fights since my crew know that if it isn't in their bowl it belongs to me.

...I don't know anyone who has more than one dog who feeds them together for exactly the reason that started this thread.

We do.  4 dogs, about 5 feet from each other. 

They all have to go to their "dinner" spots while we dish out food.  no one is allowed to move until all bowls are filled and we say "free".  The two that are most likely to fight with each other are on seperate sides of the room.  None of them are allowed to challenge the others for their food and all dogs finish what they are given.  Once each dog is done, the others will travel to each bowl and check for scraps left over, not that there ever are any.

They WILL guard stuff on the floor that is food or potential food.  A bag with a box in it that held small rolls of food but the food was all gone, started a small fight.  So I know they will resource guard but it is not on a daily basis.  We did have to spend a lot of time with the newest dog in getting her to leave the others alone while they finished because she eats twice as fast as they do.

That said, we can feed and walk away at this time and do not have to watch over them constantly.  We can also feed them closer together in situations where we are not at home but those are typically monitored.

It would seem that the female in the OP's situation has bigger britches and she just needs to be reminded that she does not set the rules.  If the OP continues in espencer's method, this will be a lifelong thing if the female is truly FA.  It may be that she is pushy, we don't know yet, but best to nip it in the bud, so to speak.

I do second, third, fourth the crating seperately, separate bowls, and separate training time. 

I spoke with the owners directly when they relinquished the dog, this was not third hand. 
To answer your question (to which the answer should already be self-evident), I have not used your method because I know better.  I know better from experience and from others with extraordinary experience in the widest variety of dogs, aggression, Doberman, working breeds, and litter-raising that you could imagine.  I have felt Doberman bites.  I have witnessed Doberman bites.  I have hauled a Doberman off of a person as it was biting her.  I have called the ambulance when someone went into seizures after receiving a Doberman bite.  They are 65lb-85lb (and sometimes larger) dogs that typically strike repeatedly as they bite, "like a sewing machine".  If you have felt the bite of a Doberman, you might not be so flippant and arrogant in responding to people who have. 
 
You are being abusive to your fellow posters and it has been noted.  I will not tolerate it personally.  I am here for the OP only as I do have valuable resources to offer should they want assistance in finding a Dobe-savvy trainer in their area.

ORIGINAL: DPU

I really can't image a dog eating out of a cubby hole for the rest of its life just so the dog eats in peace.  I can't image my dogs not being around the dining room table during Thanksgiving or any other celebrations.  I can't image having a barbecue and in that time of enjoyment and relaxation being concerned about food and the dog.  If that situation was in my house, I surely would be trying different things to change the situation and not give up. Food is such a big part of every day life.

Never fear, DPU, if you rescue dogs long enough, and take anything in that needs to be saved, you will understand it.  Food aggression can be extremely dangerous.  Dogs that don't aggress against adults may decide that the three year old reaching under your Thanksgiving table to retrieve the wishbone he just dropped, needs a face bite to convince him to give it up.  You may deal with dogs for five minutes, or twenty-five years, before such a dog shows up.  But, if one does darken your doorstep, you will really appreciate having a good insurance policy and a great lawyer.  FA is something that you work hard to train away, but then you manage the heck out of that dog for life - because you also never know when the particular person or dog that he WILL get testy with will arrive.  Common sense should prevail, not some vague ethereal notion of how important it is for dogs to share holidays the same way humans do.   A raw marrow bone keeps my guys very happy when I want them out of the way of company, and they are quite happy to gnaw on those things for hours in their crates or kennels.  Like me, they don't give a rat's butt about the Pilgrims.

As a former Dobe owner, I can attest to the power of these dogs.  When they are good, they are great.  When they aren't, things go south in a Beantown hurry.

ORIGINAL: miranadobe

I have not used your method

 
Then you cant say it does not work