Controlling the resources

In a shocking turn of events, I agree with spencer. Food is more important than belonging somewhere. And lots of things other than food can be rewards. We all know that. But by the same token, food is more important to a dog than most things in the world, thus, food makes a really effective reward! [] I would venture to add that for a wild animal, sometimes this is not the case. If there's not enough food to support a group of individuals, the group will either move or break up, depending on the animal. But I think the drive to keep a group together in many social animals rivals the drive to secure food, because a group is better at getting food, provides better protection, and is better able to defend vital resources.

I know people who have worked with dingoes. A dingo won't do a thing for you unless food is guaranteed as a result. Every single time. Maybe, if you manage to build a really good relationship with a dingo, it might do something for you just because it likes you, but there's no way it's going to make a habit of that, and it's going to pick something it kind of wanted to do anyway. Dingoes like to be in groups, but there's not a lot of food in their natural habitat, so they often need to split up and go their seperate ways. I think domestic dogs are the same. They love companionship, and would prefer to have food and companionship, but would settle for just food if circumstances were against them.

I think food is the dog's primary goal. However when you start with a consistently well fed dog, and are trying to elicit certain behaviors, another resource may be more important than food. Or food, particularly super yummy food, may still be the most important thing for an individual dog.
 
As an example, I take Wolfgang for accupressure treatments. They are somewhat painful, so I hand feed him meat and cheese throughout the procedure so that he doesn't develop a fear of the treatment. For him, it doesn't matter if he just finished breakfast, he's got his eye on that cheese the whole time. That wouldn't work with my other dogs.

Agreed, but as the original question was whether a dog would see you as a leader if you didn't control any resources, I'm guessing the dog would not be well fed for very long. []

Well, you could stick the dog in the backyard and completely ignore it; set up an auto-feeder and auto-waterer, and see what happens. Oh wait, lots of eople do this already...
 
What would be your test to see if the dog views a particular person as a leader?   

In a shocking turn of events, I agree with spencer. Food is more important than belonging somewhere.

 
Maybe or maybe not - depends on the dog.  I resuced a new dog (1 year old) two weeks ago from a family who left her in a crate, in there bedroom 24X7X7.  The only real contact with the dog was to tell her shut up and move her to a lead where she can go to the bathroom and rushed back into ther crate.  I was told she chewed, she barked, she jumped, she guarded her food, she gobbled her food and was a food mongrel!!
 
She can home with me given rules, boundrys, limitations and lots of affection and freedom.  Do you know whe is so happy, follows us and listens to everything we say.  She dosen't bark, she dosen't chew, she can get a little overexcited but she also is not a food guarder (I did hand feed and still do) AND most importantly, she doesn't gobble her food, she dosen't even eat it all.  She will walk away long before she is done.  Food is so unimportant to her and she still see's me a leader.
 
Now my Swissie is a food mongrel, food is important and was key in positioning me a leader. 
 
My rescue is just happy to belong somewhere, could care less for the food.

Well, you could stick the dog in the backyard and completely ignore it; set up an auto-feeder and auto-waterer, and see what happens. Oh wait, lots of people do this already...

 
And that's pretty much an example of when humans don't control resources. One of our neighbors does this and guess what he has super territorial labs. One got out one night and since I didn't have his phone number I couldn't call him. There's no way I was going into his yard to knock on the door. I also couldn't convince the dog to come into my yard, even with our dogs inside. I ended up taking a lawn chair and sitting outside the fence tossing "yummie chummies" to her until daylight so that she wouldn't run off and be hit by a car. AC may have been the better option, but she wouldn't have been considered adoptable and he would have just gotten another dog.
 
Despite knowing nothing, we did a very decent job rasing a puppy. We treated her well, took her places, had expectations etc. The biggest difference I see between our complete ignorance, but kind, common sense approach, was that it took longer than someone with more knowledge. Humans automatically have resources and therefore respect. It really is theirs to lose.
 
I also think that general good behavior and listening is an ingrained habit as well as a consequence of socialization. A well socialized dog will obey a command they understand from a complete stranger, even one unfamiliar with dogs.  They associate good things with good behavior and the good things aren't necessarily food. With my fearful dog, playing ball breaks down his reserves. If someone will play ball with him for a few minutes, he's just fine with them the rest of the evening. The ball is by far the most important resource in that particular dog's life.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

Well, you could stick the dog in the backyard and completely ignore it; set up an auto-feeder and auto-waterer, and see what happens. Oh wait, lots of eople do this already...

What would be your test to see if the dog views a particular person as a leader?   

Good question. IMHO, a leader is not the same as THE leader. In fact, I don't think my dog has a particular leader, she just has those that rank higher than her and she does whatever she can not to upset them. In her mind, I'm pretty sure all humans come under the umbrella of those-that-must-not-be-angered. When it comes to her favourite person, that's me. I know this because she's always most demonstrative of her delight to see me than anyone else. I honestly don't know why she favours me. She did from the moment I picked her up as a puppy, but I have cemented our bond through training and spending more time with her than anyone else. I think she hangs around me out of habit. I supplied her with the bulk of all the neat things she wanted during most of her life, so I'm a good person to hang around. Even when I'm not the one feeding her, she's always delighted to see me because sometimes I'll take her somewhere fun.

So I don't think there is a good test. Dogs will follow people they think might be interesting if the one with the food doesn't have any right now and isn't doing anything fun. And they'll respond to people who sound like they know what they're doing, regardless of whether that person has any history of supplying them with resources. A complete stranger could come up to Penny and demand that she get off the couch and go outside and she would do just that, and spend the rest of the day fawning over that stranger. To me, she sees that person as a leader, even though if they told her to do one thing and I told her to do another, she'd obey me. [] My guess is that she's used to resonding to that tone and doesn't think twice about it.

I guess my point in all of this is that a dog can happily obtain all they need from a variety of sources if need be. If you autofed your dog, my guess is it would still come home for the robot meal, but it'd spend the rest of the day where the fun and companionship is. I accept that some dogs care about other things more that food, but what I was getting at is that food has to be the priority for any animal, because that's how they survive. If food is a known factor, naturally other things will play a stronger role.

The only animals that don't have food at the top of their list of priorities are the ones that have reproducing at the top of their list. Or the ones that have more pressing survival issues, such as staying out of someone's belly. However, in the case of most domestic dogs, food is a known factor, so they don't need to have it at the top. If you made everything in their life an unknown factor, though, my feeling is that food would quickly emerge as a pressing priority. Once there's enough food in the system to keep things ticking over, though, there's time and energy for things like companionship.