Tips on dealing with dog aggressive dog please

Does Skyy only react this way to other dogs when he is on a leash, or also when he's off?

I haven't had him off-leash near any other dogs because I am afraid he will go after them and I don't have anyone willing to "donate" their dog as an experiment

I have heard that the "old way" of using the choke chain is out, but as you saw it worked.  Once they know that you have that in your tool box you will find you won't have to use it hardly ever, so don't eliminate it automatically just because it is out of favor at the moment. 

This is serious business and I know because with my first dog I can't recall how many times we had dogs run 100s of yards to attack her.  We got so good and me grabbing her and my husband blocking, you'd think it was rehearsed and in a way it was.  Seriously, if he does manage to get to another dog off leash or on, then you might have a record of a biter, which can lead to serious problems for you or maybe in time the death of your dog. 

Letting him go and trying it out on another dog isn't a good plan by any means, one of those dogs is going to get hurt.  If he is aggressive on leash, I'd bet money he is aggressive off.  Socialization will help, but it doesn't sound like you can really socialize yet because he isn't under control. 

I'd be interested in hearing how other people would get this dog under control. 

I am not anti-slip chain.  In certain cases a little pop doesn't hurt, as longas you are using it correctly.  Other times it isn't the right way to go.

My issue is that I don't want a dog that fears looking at other dogs because he will get popped for it.

I *think* it may be a fear aggression.  He is not flighty, but he is one of those dogs that will edge closer to something kind of tentatively if he doesn't know what it is, ready to spring backward at any second.  Once he is assured that the big bad thing isn't out to eat him,  he's perfectly fine with it, and never again shows any issues with it.  Maybe he just doesn't feel like I am in control of the situation with other dogs since we are so new to each other, and he thinks the other dog is going to attack *him*, so he reacts first.

I've never had a dog like this so I am really unsure how to handle it.  I usually get puppies and socialize the crap out of them so I don't have these problems.

You may be right about it being fear aggression, but it could also be territorial over you.
 
The good thing about the little jerk on the choke is that they do not associate it with you particularly or with, in this case, the dog.  We were taught this method with our dogs that have since died and neither one had any problems with other dogs.  My new current rescue is as you are describing and I need to get out and work with him on this issue, but it will be difficult because on leash is a perfect gentleman, it is only when he escapes out the gate do I see this behavior.  He was attacked several times and almost killed by other dogs, so I know his behavior is a fear aggression.
 
What I'm hoping is that you don't eliminate a tool you could use when and if you feel it is necessary, because it has gone out of style.  A quick, gentle little jerk a couple of times may be all you need to get through to him and you may never have to do it again, because he will know it's something you won't tolerate. 

my thinking is that dogs who are on leash should NEVER interact with other dogs-- your trainer is right that when on leash your dog should be paying attention to you and ignoring everything else (I disagree with the method used to drive this point home, but the theory is sound). Many a dog who is apparently aggressive towards dogs when on leash is perfectly fine with other dogs when off leash. Do you anticate your new dog will be interacting with other dogs off-leash? it is not necessary-- your new dog presumably gets along ok with your old dog, so they can play and interact.

I don't have a single problem with the way your trainer is addressing this issue.  It is quite possible that your dog won't be aggressive when he is off leash.
 
Although collar pops have fallen a bit out of favor now, the preferance being toward kinder and gentler methods, a collar pop is, without a doubt, an effective training method.

ORIGINAL: probe1957

I don't have a single problem with the way your trainer is addressing this issue.  It is quite possible that your dog won't be aggressive when he is off leash.

Although collar pops have fallen a bit out of favor now, the preferance being toward kinder and gentler methods, a collar pop is, without a doubt, an effective training method.

I am afraid that if I use the collar and pop him everytime he is aggressive, I will get a dog that associates other dogs with the pop and he won't want anything to do with them.  That is not my goal here.  I want a friendly with other dogs dog.

Is this something that is possible or do I have to settle for a dog that just doesn't want anything to do with other dogs (but isn't aggressive, either) because of the collar pops.  If that's the case, fine, I can deal with that, but I'd like a dog-friendly dog.

There's really no way for me to allow him off-leash around a strange dog.  I am not taking the chance, so I doubt I'll ever know if he is aggressive in that situation or not.

Here's a pic of the goof.  Guinness is behind him.

What a cutie.  He certainly does look like a goof.  []
 
 

ORIGINAL: Heifzilla
I am afraid that if I use the collar and pop him everytime he is aggressive, I will get a dog that associates other dogs with the pop and he won't want anything to do with them.  That is not my goal here.  I want a friendly with other dogs dog.

 
Maybe my goal would be different than yours, I am not sure.  When my dog is on lead, I don't want him interacting with other dogs.  I want him paying attention to me.  A polite sniff is okay, but after that, it is back to business, even if "business" is a real quick, "sit." 
 
It seems to me that your trainer's method is accomplishing what MY objective would be, which is to get the dog to ignore other dogs, when he is on lead.

There's really no way for me to allow him off-leash around a strange dog.  I am not taking the chance, so I doubt I'll ever know if he is aggressive in that situation or not.

 
Before you give up, ask your trainer for help evaluating your dog, off lead.  I bet you a buck he plays nicely when he is off lead.  He looks like too much of a sweetheart to really be aggressive.  []
 

see, I wouldn't "correct" him, because I think your concern is valid-- you may create more aggression. Most "leash aggression" is actually based in fear, as in "I'm trapped on this leash, better act scary so they don't approach and get me" , and any kind of correction just makes the dog's anxiety worse. I prefer to reward the dog for paying attention to me instead of the other dog/squirrel/food on ground/kids running around/etc.
Try reading "click to calm" by Emma Parsons. 

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

see, I wouldn't "correct" him, because I think your concern is valid-- you may create more aggression. Most "leash aggression" is actually based in fear, as in "I'm trapped on this leash, better act scary so they don't approach and get me" , and any kind of correction just makes the dog's anxiety worse.

 
I am fully aware of the fact that there are many different methods of training a dog that will produce results, but I wonder, what WOULD you do?  I mean, if your, on lead dog, is growling, raising hell, wanting to get to another dog, what would you do to correct the behavior?
 
It seems to me that what the OP's trainer suggested is working, in that he is ignoring other dogs when on lead.  So while you may be right in that his method won't work for all dogs, it certainly seems to be working for the OP.
 
I am not trying, at all, to be argumentative.  I am trying to educate myself here.

Some dogs just don't care for other dogs - that is just the way they are.  My Sheltie doesn't like most dogs - but that doesn't mean she can growl or try to attack them.  I did use leash corrections and she ignores other dogs.  However, I did compete in agility and obedience with her and ignoring other dogs is necessary.  Leash corrections do not accecerbate aggression - that is just isn't so.  A correction means "stop it" - and like one of the other posters said...just what would you do if your dog is balistic on the end of the leash?  If you just walk away, that teaches the dog nothing.  Sometimes you "just have to say NO" and mean it.  My own dog did not become more aggressive or as some folks think ..... won't growl, but just attack.  In fact when she sees new dogs, which she does all the time since I am instructor, she just politely lies down out of the way - no sniffing, no nothing.  There was no harm done by giving her leash corrections - gentle ones - she only weighs 25 lbs.
 
Dianeg

This sounds almost exactly like what my dog, Cairo does.  I've attributed it to fear aggression because usually he's ok if dogs don't look at him or if they ignore him.  He can sniff them fine until they turn around and look at him and then he lunges at them.  When he was a young puppy he was chased by two very large dogs and this was a very terrifying incident for him which I don't think has ever left him.  When let off leash in a dog park (took him there once or twice to see how he would react and it wasn't quite satisfactory so we don't go anymore), he appears to ignore the other dogs, though it looks like some part of him also wants to see them.  When another dog comes up to him he gets very very tense and stiff and his hackles go up and sometimes he'll growl.  You can almost feel him building up until he snaps and just lunges/snarls at the other dog.  He never tries to fight, just scare them off.  He's actually never fought with another dog in his life.
 
On leash he gets tense when another dog comes into view and his hackles go up and eventually it gets to the point where he howls and lunges against the leash after the other dog.  I've been working pretty diligently on this all summer long on our daily walks and I've tried several different methods.  I've tried distracting him with a treat when we near another dog, but quite frankly, he doesn't give a darn about a treat on a walk, so that doesn't work.  I've tried other methods of distracting him like calling his name or getting excited and trying to at least get him to divert his attention for a split second, but that's no use.  I've finally resorted to using the "pop" method with the choke and really, it's the only thing that's worked so far.  He seems to need that physical touch to "bring him back" from his fixation...nothing I say to him will do that.  The moment I see a dog in the distance I just start watching him and the moment I see him notice the other dog and start fixating on it I just pop the collar and tell him "leave it" sternly and then praising him when he diverts his attention.  After time it's gotten to the point where he's pretty good at it and we have been in situations where we can walk by other dogs without him fixating or growling at them.  This is a HUGE step and I'm incredibly proud of him, though I feel bad for having to use the choke collar because everyone's suddenly bashing it...but it's the way I was taught in all my years of 4-H dog training when I was growing up and every obedience class I went to, so it's the method I'm most familiar with. 
 
This is just my experience, but perhaps it will let you know that he can be trained out of this, it'll just take time and effort.  I think getting him around other dogs every day will help him, not meeting dogs, but walking by them and being in an area where he can see them.  That way you can practice keeping his attention off the other dogs.  I agree that the dog's attention should be on the handler on a walk for the most part and fixating on other dogs isn't acceptable.  It doesn't matter whether or not it's a friendly fixation, it's just as annoying to me, if not more so, when other people's dogs get all wiggly and drag their owners over to me while I'm walking so Cairo can attack them as it is when dogs growl and snarl and try to get to us.  At least when the other dog is growly the owner is less likely to allow the dog to lead him/her [8|]    At this point in time I'm not comfortable letting Cairo greet other dogs, off leash or on, because he still hasn't overcome his fears and I don't trust him not to snap (this is constantly tested with all the dogs that somehow manage to get to us on our walks, and there have been recent instances in which I've nearly bubbled over with pride when Cairo doesn't growl), but my hope is that eventually he will be able to walk up to other dogs and not show aggression at all.

ORIGINAL: Heifzilla
I have him in training classes, but the trainer is an obedience teacher who is rather "old-school" and he took Skyy around the training area and when he would lunge for the other dogs, he'd "pop" him with the slip collar.  After a couple of times of this, Skyy was obviously not in the mood to even look at another dog.  I asked the trainer how this was going to get Skyy to interact calmly with other dogs (say, on walks, etc.) and was told that my dog shouldn't be interacting with other dogs...that his attention should be on me at all times. 


Any suggestions?  Thank you.

I have one.  Get another trainer.  While it is true that your dog's attention should be on you, this is not the way to get it.  While "correction" works, it is only temporary, and can make your situation much worse.  Most aggression is rooted in fear or in stress, and if you have made your dog even more fearful of telling another dog to keep its distance, you may create a situation where someday the stress will build up too much and he will go over the edge and actually bite instead of snap.  I am a trainer, and I would not instantly go to correction on a dog that has not been evaluated off leash.  The easy way to do that is to find a very secure dog to test with.  Your dog would be muzzled if you seriously think he might do damage.
More often than not, the aggression that is exhibited while on leash is really "reactivity", and the dogs don't engage in nastiness.  Most leash aggressive dogs are ok off leash - this is a problem that is made worse by "correction" and better by "desensitization".
I think you really should get a copy of "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson (she is the head trainer at the San Francisco SPCA's school for dog trainers).  You need to decide if you want your dog to obey to avoid pain, or you want to build a positive relationship based on trust, so that you may never need to use aversives.
Another great little book - "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons.   Also, Ali Brown wrote a nice book all about reactive dogs - it's called "Scaredy Dog - Understanding and Rehabilitating Your Reactive Dog".  I would get reading right away, and find your next trainer here:
[linkhttp://www.clickertraining.com]www.clickertraining.com[/link]
[linkhttp://www.apdt.com]www.apdt.com[/link]

Also, the desensitization process is not done by taking him to areas with lots of other dogs.  It begins with you learning not to tighten up on your leash (breathe), and it begins wherever the dog's comfort zone is.  If that means you begin when other dogs are 100 feet away, so be it.
Attention exercises using food can be quite helpful.  Teach him a "watch" command, so that you don't have to pull on his leash to get him to focus on you.