Barking in Crate

I so appreciate everyone working on this with me, it's a stinker. 
 
He's in the crate that he had at his previous home, it came along with him.  Also, his favorite two toys from that home are with him.  I find it hard to believe that this behavior was not a problem in his previous home, not that it matters now. 
 
He is a very high energy dog.  I walk him about 1/2 hour in the morning and my DH walks him about 1 hour every evening.  In between, when I'm home, which is most of the day, he is up and about, following me about and going out to the yard.  We have ordered him a set of panieres to carry on his walk, to increase the amount of energy he burns on those walks.  We'll put a couple of pounds in the bags. 
 
Although I've never thought of medicating a dog, I think it may be appropriate at this point, from all the advice I'm getting here and from a behaviorist I'm talking with.  We need to give him a chance to succeed, and until I can get him to calm down some, we don't think he can wrap his little mind around what our expectations are.  As someone mentioned, it's like a dog with ADHD. 
 
Today he had alot of activity, including a late afternoon 1 hour walk, yet when we left him in his crate late in the day for 1 hour of grocery shopping, he barked the entire time (I have a neighbor helping me out--when I go out, I tell the neighbor and he sneaks quietly near my house every 1/2 hour to hear what's up).  And, I don't even need that help, because the little one is shaking like a leaf when we return, the nonstop barking is making her nuts.  He is making himself nuts.  I feel bad for him, his stress level is obviously high and we see unable to ease it with what we are doing. 

Angela, is there another spot where you can leave your little girl when you are gone?  Maybe a bathroom FAR away from the barker?  I'm almost betting she'd appreciate a QUIET place while you are gone the little that you are.  Maybe put her bed in the bathroom, put a radio in there with her, and TELL her why you are doing this.  TELL her that mom wants to give you a QUIET place where you won't be so bothered by the barking.  Make it NICE for her, but make it HER place to escape the noise.  It truely IS amazing what all they will understand when you TELL them the why's of what you are doing.
 
Have you tried sitting down with this boy and telling him WHERE you are going, how long you're going to be gone and TOLD him that he NEEDS to relax, take a little nap and be QUIET while you are gone?  I know that sounds a bit silly, but it *might* help.  Are you crating him at OTHER times as well?  Like for good stuff like meals and treats?  I honestly, crazy as this sounds, TELL my dogs, "mom needs to run into town/go to the store/ pick up some cat food and litter/ go see GRANDMA (and they KNOW that Grandma means they're gonna be crated longer)"  I let them know before I leave if it's gonna be a short crate stay or a LONG one, but I let them know that I WILL be back.  And then I ALWAYS tell them.....NAP TIME while mom's gone.  Be good.
 
The things that I do, won't work for you because they are things that I do when I'm home......you can't give him a stern look and a "that will DO" when you aren't there, nor can you threaten him with the spray bottle.  Mine start the morning yodel fest every morning about 7AM.  With mine all it takes is a stern look and sometimes "that will DO", depending on how much they are feeding off one another.......ignoring the yodel fest doesn't work...they'll just keep on and HAVE for as long as 45 minutes because they feed off one another when that's going on.  But a stern look stops them in their tracks.  That doesn't help you tho.
 
A citronella bark collar *might* help, but I'm not sure it's a good idea with this little guys history.  Honestly, I think valerin (and I know I spelled that wrong) would be a GREAT place to start.  And Callie has a whole bunch of natural stuff that SHE uses, so you really ought to PM her and see what she would suggest.  At this point I think I'd be willing to do WHATEVER it takes for him to learn that it's ok to be home alone in his crate.  This is sounding more and more like SA to me, and I'd rather see you start with some homeopathic ideas than hitting the vet for major tranqs.  He's housetrained right?  But if you leave him loose he "forgets"?  So your choices are a barking lunatic of a dog or pee/poop to clean up when you come home?
 
He may NOT have had this problem in his previous home.....this might be new because of the rehoming.  He's old enough that the change might have been all it took to trigger these problems.  Regardless of the WHY's you've got to find some way to break this cycle so that YOU aren't repeatedly stressed.  I know that you absolutely want to do the right thing for the dog, but you also have to remember what stress does to your MS and take care of YOU too.  You are no good to anyone if you have a major recurrance and can't get out of bed.
 
He said/she said, I maintain that it is NOT a good idea to promote ideas that you yourself would not be willing to use.  Yep, I use the spray bottle sometimes, yep, I've even used the dreaded PRONG collar on Thor when nothing else worked.  It was the prong or no walks.  But, unlike the Monks I used it correctly, with NO collar corrections and let him learn that pulling made his neck uncomfortable.  And yep, when two young pups decide to mix it up and they ignore a verbal correction, they just might get a glass of water tossed on their heads.  But, the big difference is that I've raised these dogs and I know what works and what doesn't work with them.  I'd never put a prong on my female, cuz I know enough about her temperment and personality that I know it would "break" her.  With FEW exceptions, my dogs live to please me.  But they are still dogs who do stuff that I can't understand because they think differently than I think.
 
IN THIS CASE, aversives will likely just make the problem worse.  This is an older animal who was suddenly ripped from his family and rehomed.  HE doesn't understand why he had to leave the place he'd spent the first several years of his life, HE doesn't understand that this new woman is his new MOM and that he's gotta listen to her and please HER now.  He's afraid...he's beyond afraid, he's terrified every single time she leaves him.  IN THIS CASE setting the dog up to fail isn't appropriate.  I don't really think that it ever is....far better to set the dog up to SUCEED...by hiding and praising QUIET not punishing barking, and certainly NOT further terrorizing an already frightened dog.
 
So while the Monks *might* have a lot of experience, that doesn't mean the DOGS had a positive experience or that the dogs complied for any reason other than fear.  If that's how you want to train your dogs, go for it.  If you want to suggest their methods to others, go ahead, but I guess what I was trying to say was that it's NOT appropriate advice IN THIS CASE.  And it doesn't help Angel or the lurkers to offer those ideas IN THIS CASE.
 
 

Is he crated when you left the room even though your still in the house for the training method?

Have you tried sitting down with this boy and telling him WHERE you are going, how long you're going to be gone and TOLD him that he NEEDS to relax, take a little nap and be QUIET while you are gone?

It's my belief that this method (if done before departures) would only serve to worsen any SA. It's possible the attention, though well intentioned, could regress a dog in particular situations.

I would try the water bottle technique myself.


B.B

I have personal experience with explaining to SA dogs where I'm going, when I'll be back and what I expect from them while I'm gone.  I wouldn't have suggested it if I didn't know from experience that it CAN work.

A good update. 

All of a sudden, after 12 weeks here, the barking in the crate ceased.  It may be because I started closing all the blinds in the kitchen where he stays, thereby eliminating any stimulation, or it may be that he now feels safe here and knows I always come back to him. 

At any rate, things are looking up.  Thank you for all your support and ideas!!!

Good to hear!  Very glad for your sake and Misty's!
 

ORIGINAL: HeSaidSheSaid

The Monks Of New Skete have a technique I call the "Monk Smackdown!".

Basically, when you hear them whinning/yelping/barking you open-hand smack the front of the cage with a STERN "NO" (that's if you catch them doing it).

 
Ok so now you end up with a paranoid dog that barks even more and is skittish.  Good work. 
 

Thousand pardon, Glenmar...


Wow...

Huh?  What did I say to offend you THIS time?

I thought that rude

Ok so now you end up with a paranoid dog that barks even more and is skittish. Good work.

remark was from you. My apologies, it just seemed so " Glendmar" that I didn't even think to look at the author.

Even stranger is i've been getting these e-mails from iDog members about you. Whew! You are some-kind-of popular!

Again, my apologizes for the mix up.


B.B

[sm=rolleyes.gif]

Ok folks, lets keep in mind we're here to help each other and different methods will work for different dogs. I've not only used the band on the crate & water bottle but I've also covered my crates...depending on what works for each dog, you'd never know if you didn't get suggestions of the different methods.
 
 

Jaime, I absolutely agree.  I don't like the Alpha BS that the monks push...being a leader doesn't HAVE to be about being MEAN.  Have I ever banged on a crate?  Heck yes.  But, these are MY dogs who I've had since they were tiny.  Have I ever used a spray bottle??  Heck yes, but again, we have a history together.  And yep, covering the crate is an EXCELLENT idea that I didn't even think to mention despite doing that ALL the time.
 
I do think tho, that we need to look at the individual dog and the individual problem before doling out suggestions.  And admitedly, when I first responded to the Monks post, I didn't go back and LOOK at the OP.  Once I had done that, I was even firmer in my belief that while those things could work for SOME dogs, in THIS case it just flat wasn't a good idea to scare him further.
 
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to look at the individual situation BEFORE we toss out suggestions, particularly if they are ideas that are aversive.
 
 

For the dogs, your 100% correct. Not ego.

I'm going to passively observe from now on. There is absolutely no reason to share information and ideas if you get crucified everytime you disagree with one particular person.

B.B