Dog Community

Barking in Crate

Posted : 5/4/2006 10:30:19 AM

Hi all,

We continue to struggle through our adoption of a six year old male toy poodle. His previous owners worked full time and he was crated all day in their home "without any difficulties." Okay.

He has been in our home about 8 weeks. When I go out, I have him go into his crate. If left out of his crate without someone in the house, he becomes very nervous and has trouble controlling himself (peeing, etc.), so he absolutely needs to be in his crate when we are out. We have, through a series of events, found that he is barking in his crate the entire time we are gone. First a neighbor reported it to us, after that I started parking down the end of the street and sneaking up to the house, only to find him barking his brains out.

I have tried alot of different training methods, the go out and come back and reassure method, etc. I have put kongs stuffed with every imaginable delicious goop in his crate. Nothing has worked.

Some may think, well, what's the problem, he's not bothering anyone, let him bark. Well, he is bothering someone, and that's our 1.5 year old Misty. When ever I return from an outing, she is a total nervous wreck from the constant barking. She is an extremely calm, relaxed dog and this barking and turning her into a wreck.

I am at my wit's end and am really struggling through this adoption. It is not working in so many ways, I can barely count them. Since there are 4 of us here, me and DH and two teens, there are always people coming and going and criss crossing each other. Since the new guy needs to be in his crate, and wants out when ever someone comes in, it's a constant dog juggle. I'm not sure this is the ideal home for him, I think he'd do better in a home without so much coming and going and perhaps with someone who is home even more than I am (I'm only gone 2-4 hours a day!!!).

I don't know what to do.

Firestorm

Posted : 5/4/2006 10:41:24 AM

Where is your other dog when the new one is crated?

angelamarie

Posted : 5/4/2006 11:11:40 AM

Forgot to mention that the other dog, Misty, is not in a crate, she is in a confined area of the kitchen, family room that does contain the second dog's crate. He is in the kitchen, and she's usually on her pillow in the adjacent room. We have tried different locations for his crate, all with no success. (We tried two other locations, each for a number of days, didn't want to bounce the little guy around too much and get him even more stressed out.)

rredbird

Posted : 5/4/2006 12:32:53 PM

I am sure someone better will have some suggestions for you but FWIW -

I am not one to push pills as the answer to everything but maybe it is time to involve your vet and try some clomicalm (sp?) or something. Once on something maybe the training will go better (sort of like an ADHD child on medicine so they can concentrate better). I can't remember if you are looking for a behaviorist or if that was someone else but they might be able to offer more suggestions on intergrating training with meds (if needed).

Sorry i am not much help on this but I have not faced this problem. My ACD foster has a bad problem of barking in her crate when you get home but is slowly getting better although there are days I wonder!

Firestorm

Posted : 5/5/2006 8:18:14 AM

Well he could be barking and carrying on because your other dog is out and about in the house and he is not.

Brian Banks

Posted : 5/5/2006 10:54:23 AM

The Monks Of New Skete have a technique I call the "Monk Smackdown!".

Basically, when you hear them whinning/yelping/barking you open-hand smack the front of the cage with a STERN "NO" (that's if you catch them doing it).

Do you have a husband/boyfriend/beau?

Have them hide and you do your regular routine of leaving (actually driving away and all) and have them POP-OUT and either do the "Monk Smackdown" or squirt them with a bottle of COLD water from a distance everytime he barks, while still staying out of sight (my recommended method). That COLD water will be one hell of a reinforcer.

Or, you can just let the barking go on and when he realizes that it isn't getting him anywhere he'll theoretically stop. Though 8 weeks in sounds like he's a pretty determined little guy.

B.B

glenmar

Posted : 5/5/2006 10:59:30 AM

I do NOT recommend this method. Aversives need to be avoided in all animals, but particularly in a young pup.

Brian Banks

Posted : 5/5/2006 11:57:16 AM

Ok...[8|]

Just trying to give a bit of advice.

A spray of cold water I don't believe is a very aversive technique.

B.B

glenmar

Posted : 5/5/2006 12:11:09 PM

As I go back now and re-read the original post, this is a 6 year old dog who has already been rehomed once. Setting this dog up to fail by beating on the crate or spraying him with cold water isn't going to help resolve the problem. I do think this dog is suffering some mild SA and I think it would be best to talk to the vet about the possibility of meds, or perhaps talk to Callie about some of the natural relaxants and see if those might help.

Brian Banks

Posted : 5/5/2006 11:40:10 PM

I don't believe putting a dog on medication is a good idea.

A spuirt of a water bottle at most will give the dog an attention getting jolt. Meds will have adverse affects on their body chemistry, liver and kidneys. They are not natural (most of them atleast, and the ones that i've seen other trainers use have alcohol in them).

I'm not saying to alpha roll the dog for barking in his crate, but I have used the water bottle technique with much success. I also said that the "Monk Smackdown is what THEY recommended, not me. I DO NOT recommend that method either.

B.B

glenmar

Posted : 5/6/2006 7:40:04 AM

I have used the squirt bottle and have no problem doing it with MY dogs. But this is a little guy who's had a wierd life already and I think that he's showing some pretty clear signs of SA. This isn't something that he can control. This is FEAR....actually, much worse than fear. I'd liken using aversives on THIS dog, in THIS situation to dropping live snakes on me to "make" me get over my fear of them. I'd likely die of sheer fright, so in a way, you'd have "cured" me. And if I didn't die, I'd be even more terrified of PEOPLE who *might* try to do that to me again.

PEOPLE who have any sort of anxiety disorder are treated with medications, among other things. I am absolutely not one to push meds...I dont like to have to take them myself, BUT, sometimes they are needed. And stuff like valerin is a more nature thing to try and Callie could guide the OP with that. It doesn't sedate the dog, but rather allows him to relax.

If you dont' recommend the Monks method, please don't post something that you don't recommend. There are a ton of folks who READ and never post on idog, and for them to see a method such as that recommended her might encourage them to try something that could be dangerous to them and to the dog.

angelamarie

Posted : 5/6/2006 10:29:11 AM

I appreciate all the advice, all ideas are helpful. I wouldn't use any aversive techniques on this little guy, he has enough fear as it is. I had thought of a citronella collar, but that's a dumb idea. He is barking because he has separation anxiety and fear, he was taken from his home of six years, and although that wasn't a great situation, it was his. Spraying him in the face is not going to treat the root of the problem.

Actually, I've never used an types of aversive techniques on any dogs I've owned, I've always dealt with it from a "what's causing this" angle and have been able to correct behaviors once I understood them. It does take longer, though, but I think in the long run the patience pays off, the understanding makes for a better balanced dog IMHO.

We need to continue our "practice" separations, and we'll do that a trillion times if we need to I have placed a white noise machine in the kitchen and close all the blinds when I'm out so that any distracting noises outside cannot upset him. Also, we allowed him to be on the loose in the house with Misty today while we were outside. I'm cautious of that, though, because Misty loves to push his buttons as hard as she can, she's still a puppy. He's very tolerant but I'd not like to test where the line is drawn for him.

Brian Banks

Posted : 5/6/2006 12:00:40 PM

If you dont' recommend the Monks method, please don't post something that you don't recommend.

Although I do not recommend that particular method I posted it as what THEY do recommend. As controversial as The Monls are, they do have tons of experience and I felt I should atleast thow it out there.

I will continue to do so. Glenmar, I admire your knowledge and tenacity to help others. You have to remember though, that your form of training will not work for every dog, thus other methods can, should and will be recommended.

B.B

ashland

Posted : 5/6/2006 2:03:14 PM

Ash used to do this and I had no idea what to do. It didn't matter if I was still in the apartment and she was in her crate; she'd bark whenever she was in there. So one time, being extremely frustrated and not knowing what to do, I grabbed an old piggy bank that I had just unpacked and shook it. She shut up instantly. She barked again after a about a minute. I shook it again, she shut up again. I don't know if it was fear or what, but she shut up whenever that noise was made.

One day I was leaving her in the crate to go grocery shopping and as soon as I left the apartment, she let out a little bark. I was prepared for this and shook the piggy bank on the other side of the door and she shut up. I quietly walked down the stairs and when I came back, I asked my neighbor if Ash had been barking. She said no.

That's what worked for me. I'm sure people will disagree, but it was a miracle.

griffinej5

Posted : 5/6/2006 4:15:52 PM

Angela, I don't really have any advice for you on the situation, but, sorry you're having such a hard time with the new guy. Maybe there is something you are doing different from the old owners, or maybe they just lied to you, but you'll probably never know. I was just thinking, if you get him really tired before you go, like completely exhausted, will he still bark? What type of crate is he in, wire, or plastic, and is it the same type that he was in at the previous home? My thinking on this may be sorta out there, but maybe he would be happier in the other type of crate. Max seems to like his plastic crate better than the wire one he had before, so maybe a different type of crate will work for him.