Dog Community

Tug o War games

Posted : 4/25/2006 7:59:10 PM

[linkhttp://www.sfspca.org/behavior/dog_library/tug.pdf]http://www.sfspca.org/behavior/dog_library/tug.pdf[/link]

Find out about tug o war games can lead to a serious aggression

glenmar

Posted : 4/25/2006 8:04:10 PM

Again, horse feathers. This is an archaic belief that just doesn't hold true. I have SIX german shepherds. None are agressive, although one is reactive, and SHE is the one who doesn't play tug games. One of my boys likes to be hand fed in the mornings. It's his special "mom" time. So, there I sit with 3 gsds under my desk and not ONE will even try to take food from my hand other than the boy I'm feeding.

I used to think the same thing, but I've found out for myself that that is pure horse feathers. I'm alpha in my pack and when I say the game is over, it is. this is MY EXPERIENCE with tug.

Jennifer

Posted : 4/25/2006 8:10:21 PM

Well for the size of German Shepherds I'll just say, I'm sure they will be working to be bite or be aggressive towards strangers!

glenmar

Posted : 4/25/2006 8:18:30 PM

Excuse me?? That was rather rude. Three of my dogs have earned their Canine Good Citizen Awards. We are working towards my girls' and the two young boys. The Search and Rescue trainer really WANTS two of my boys in his program but isn't sure about ME since I have had a number of surgeries and rather limited upper body strength. Yet another is waiting for the start up of the next training to start to become a Therapy dog. These are NOT things that are possible for a dog, of any size that is agressive to strangers.

Julie Beveridge

Posted : 4/25/2006 10:11:32 PM

I agree Glenda rude it was. I have a GSD and she is one of the best I have owned so far. Don't make judgements on things you know nothing about. Always remember that GSD were bred to protect and nanny children. Remember Rin Tin Tin....he was a GSD.

Julie another proud GSD owner.

sooner

Posted : 4/25/2006 10:22:15 PM

Tug DOES NOT lead to aggression. The following post was written by our resident Applied Animal Behaviorist in a previous thread about tug. It explains where the aggression myth came from.

ORIGINAL: mrgmfoster

Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 9:10 am:

There is a HUGE misconception about this game. It has nothing to do with pack order, winning, losing, causing aggression, or anything else for that matter. It is just a game, nothing more.

Where the myth came from:
People used to play tug with there dogs more than any other game (fetch being a close second). The owners would yank and pull, the dog would growl and jerk the tug toy around. The harder the dog pulled, and the louder the dog growled, the more excited owners got. That was the point of the game.

This is when issues started to come about. Because owners were showing such excitement at the growling and extreme behavior they started seeing this behavior in other parts of the dogs life. Basically, they were rewarding this extreme growling (by showing there enthusiasm), and it started showing up in daily life. But growling was typically the only side effect.

In 8 years I have never seen nor heard of a dog becoming aggressive or changing pack order because of a game of tug of war. Dogs that have had aggression issues or pack order problems would have had them anyway.

Just keep the game under control. If the dog starts to get to excited, just let go. The dog does not see this as you losing and him winning. It is seen as the game ending, because he got to rowdy.

If you play tug a lot, you do want to have a good drop it command. Mainly because dogs that tug frequently will pick up random items to initiate the game.

Otherwise, just have fun!

http://forum.dog.com/discus/messages/48/226957.html

sooner

Posted : 4/25/2006 10:28:18 PM

ORIGINAL: ms_paws

[linkhttp://www.sfspca.org/behavior/dog_library/tug.pdf]http://www.sfspca.org/behavior/dog_library/tug.pdf[/link]

Find out about tug o war games can lead to a serious aggression

Ok, I actually posted without opening your link, now that I have I'm confused.

I didn't read it word for word, but scanned it and I'm not sure that it supports your point. In fact, the following are quotes directly from that article:

It is highly unlikely dogs become more aggressive by playing games with their owners. Quite the contrary, in fact; customarily, game playing builds confidence and handleability and promotes friendliness. Perhaps the so-called increase in aggressiveness would be better termed excessive rambunctiousness - play-chasing, play-growling, play-mouthing and play-fighting, i.e., the dog is over-friendly.

When played according to the rules, these games: 1. increase the level of control owners have over their dogs, specifically proofing control at times when the dogs are excited and worked-up and 2. motivate, build confidence and make the dog less aggressive, specifically improving and maintaining his bite inhibition.

Jennifer

Posted : 4/25/2006 10:51:43 PM

Good point. I didn't write that

I think it was talking about the rules on playing tug o war theirs a right way & wrong way

astaracheetah

Posted : 4/25/2006 11:09:41 PM

I play tug with Eevee, and I have remained Alpha for 6 years. No aggression problems, and no disobedience problems. We are also working towards her Canine Good Citizen award.

luv4gsds

Posted : 4/26/2006 6:13:35 AM

I own four german shepherds and two mini dachshunds and I play tug of war with all of them. Aggression can be genetic also. For people that do schutzhund and personal protection this is good game when it comes to drive encouragement. As long as you have structure in your pack tug of war shouldn't be a problem. But if the dog sees it's self as alpha than it might be a problem.

glenmar

Posted : 4/26/2006 6:45:51 AM

I'm glad that Mics comments were put here. Thanks Kelly.

For many years I too believed that playing tug could lead to agressive behavior. That was the accepted norm. But, then, so again was the old rolled up newspaper and rubbing a pups nose in his mistakes. Goodness, the last time I checked the AKC was still promoting choke collars for general training. So just because something is a long held "truth" or just because an official organization says its so, doesn't neccessarily make it right..

mudpuppy

Posted : 4/26/2006 9:13:57 AM

I think the tug of war myth came about because a) a person foolishly trying to remove a treasured object from a dog's mouth by pulling on it may get bitten; of course, this is not tug of war from the dog's point of view, nor is it a game. and b) schutzhund trainers have used tug of war for eons to reward their dogs and build drive in their dogs, and people tend to mistake schutzhund trained bites as "aggression". So they conclude the tug of war causes aggression. The fact that agility handlers commonly use tug of war to reward their dogs and to build drive as well, without apparently triggering any aggressive behavior, seems to have escaped notice.

glenmar

Posted : 4/26/2006 9:19:12 AM

Thank you mudpuppy. I'm gonna say that it was THIS comment that ticked me off....as if I'm deliberately raising killer dogs.......

Well for the size of German Shepherds I'll just say, I'm sure they will be working to be bite or be aggressive towards strangers!

mudpuppy

Posted : 4/26/2006 9:23:27 AM

yeah, you should be ticked off. I'm ticked off too-- my dogs are bigger than yours. You think they are working to be aggressive to strangers? Lick them to death, maybe. Cause fatal tail-whips.

glenmar

Posted : 4/26/2006 9:26:40 AM

The funny part of that is, that Sheba is the ONE dog I don't totally trust with strangers and she's the ONE who hates to play tug! The others, like yours would lick them to death or inflict fatal tail whip!! And quite accidently! Biggest darned love bugs you've ever seen!

Maybe they have pack meetings late at nite tho, plotting to lull us into a false sense of security, all the while honing their skills with tug, so they can turn the UPS guy into walking BARF??[

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