I think we may just quit

    • Gold Top Dog
    (I've actually seen physically disabled handlers manage this feat, so don't laugh).

    I've got them at my club.  One woman (who isn't a member but I see her at trials often) is this way.  She's older, heavier set, has bad knees, so OF COURSE she runs a nut job demon breakneck speed Border Collie (ain't that always the way?)! 
     
    Katydid (Just called Kate usually) is a GREAT dog, and Kathy just stands out in the middle of that ring, and points...you can hardly hear her give commands, but that dog responds like you wouldn't believe...turns on a dime, is controlled (even though she runs like a maniac)....impressive to watch.
     
    Do you have verbal "turning" commands?

    Yes, but I have trouble with them (unless it's left or right..and even then, I'm sketchy on it).  There are people out there who yell "SWITCH!" to their dogs, and their dogs will turn, but I have no idea if it's an overall command, or if it means left or right to the dog. 
     
    Good verbal obstacle discriminations?

    Not quite sure what you mean.
     
    Can you stand still and send him from a distance over each obstacle, without you having to run with him?

    Only if there's a tunnel or a target, there are some obstacles we've run into some issues with (all of a sudden he doesn't like the dog walk, and we've regressed to ducking under the tire).
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yes, but I have trouble with them (unless it's left or right..and even then, I'm sketchy on it). There are people out there who yell "SWITCH!" to their dogs, and their dogs will turn, but I have no idea if it's an overall command, or if it means left or right to the dog.


    Aha!  The FIRST step in training a dog is to have a clear picture in your mind of what the command means.  If commands are sketchy to you and you're the one issuing commands, how is Strauss supposed to obey?  Do some real thinking about your commands and see if you have a very definate idea of what it means. 

    (Aside, for my dogs "switch" means turn away from my body as in changing leads while the dog is performing a jump.   It is different from "out". )
     
    ETA to sort of clarify the switch command
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sorry to hear you are having such a hard time.  I know it can be frustrating.  Sounds like you have gotten some great advice so far.  I agree with the others who have said that Strauss may be biting out of frustration.  Dasher used to be a big time biter, niper, hearder, etc.  when we were running.  I used a variety of tools to help curb this.  I would down him or quit the game.  I know you said Strauss does not associate quitting the game with biting you, but one thing that I have seen that works with some dogs is when they do the unwated behavior, you crate them up, no fuss, no eye contact, no verbal anything.  Then you work another dog for a few minutes, with the crated dog in view.  Maybe if you are with your instructor they can bring his/her dog out for you to run for a short sequence.  Then bring Strauss out, try again.  I always try and set up my guys for sucess, so if you know he can only do 2 obstacles at time, start with that, click, treat (or whatever you use as reward).  Then try a different 2 obstacles, click treat.  If he starts to bite, back in crate, let him watch you work another dog, have a good time, etc.  then try again. 

    As far as only being able to work Strauss at a distance because he is too fast....IMHO, I think you are not giving yourself enough credit. [;)] Agility dogs need to learn not only to work from a distance but close to handler as well.  You don't need to race him (I know you said you aren't trying to race him) in order to get in front to do those front crosses.  [:)] Dasher is lightning fast and we have had to learn to adjust his speed according to what the course is asking.  Sometimes it requires sending, sometimes it doesn't.  When I learned this concept at a seminar this winter it was a serious "lightbulb" moment for me.  [:D] In fact that was the source of a lot of Dasher's frustration on course, too much "flinging" and not enough communication and support.  Like I said, there is a time for distance work and there is also a time for dog and handler to work closely.  If I am able to get front crosses in with Dasher I have no doubt you can too.  (If you don't believe me, go watch the Masters class at any USDAA  trial, those dogs are super fast and their handlers put in front crosses) [:)]  In order to work on various speeds we started by literally running around the yard, no jumps.  My goal would be to keep Dasher in a heel position (or close to it) no matter what speed I was running.  I was a mess at first.  He would run and try and get in front of me, nip, jump, etc.  I use a clicker, so I would click, treat every time he got in heel position.  Sometimes I had to lure with his ball or cookie.  I did this for off-side as well.  Then I added some jumps, I would not jump the jumps, sort of weave around them, and take one here and there, keep Dasher focused on me.  I would click and feed for all good behavior. 

    I have already written a novel here and my fingers are getting tired, but if you are interested in more tidbits feel free to PM me.

    Good luck!


    • Gold Top Dog
      If commands are sketchy to you and you're the one issuing commands, how is Strauss supposed to obey? 

    Sorry, when I mean sketchy, I mean that I can't think on my feet.  I'm a fly by the seat of my pants girl...but not when my dog is zipping around at 20 MPH xD  So if I'm doing a walk through and I'm thinking about the path of my dog, during the walk through I'll do my signals, and if there's somewhere where he needs to turn left, I'll say "LEFT!" ....but when it comes to the run...my brain just isn't THERE yet, so the command I was issuing in my walk through either isn't issued at ALL, it's issued LATE, or I give the WRONG command altogether!

    My runs never go as my walk through did.  I've been known to throw in crosses where I didn't have them in my walk through, take OUT crosses that WERE in my walk through, give a "get out" command during my run even when in the walk through it was "right!"  Get what I'm saying?

    .....oh my poor dog.  No wonder he's biting me.  I'd bite me too!

    I would down him or quit the game.  I know you said Strauss does not associate quitting the game with biting you, but one thing that I have seen that works with some dogs is when they do the unwated behavior, you crate them up, no fuss, no eye contact, no verbal anything.  Then you work another dog for a few minutes, with the crated dog in view

    Did it...and all he does...is SCREAM.  NOTHING shuts him up.  Not kidding.  Put a blanket over it?  Nope.  He's not stupid.  He will scream and scream and scream, and I mean it literally when I say scream. 

    You'd think a baby was being slaughtered. 

    And so when his "punishment" is over, I go take him out, and he's worse than when he went in, because "OMG OMG OMG OMG I'M OUT, I'm OUT, I'M OUT, I GET TO RUN OH...MY...GOD!!!!"  And if you think it can't get worse...you should hear him when I DO run an instructors god. "YOU BIZNATCH! How DARE you put me in here and run SOMEBODY ELSE!  WTF!"  Not kidding.

    Strauss is a "jealousy dog", and this is the ploy that was originally used to get him into prey drive when we started schutzhund.  "If you don't get that rag, somebody else will!" And so, another dog works...and we scream instead of being patient. That may be part of the issue right there.  "If I don't get there FIRST somebody will get what I want before I've got a chance!"

    This is going to sound completely ironic to you, but I can get a lot farther away in class, because unlike ranger who I needed to be right next to and coach through, Strauss WANTS his space.  He'll push me out and away or will refuse an obstacle if I'm too close by (exception being the weaves right now, because he's just beginning to understand them, so he allows me to be closer).

    If I am able to get front crosses in with Dasher I have no doubt you can too.


    You're right of course...I'm just absolutely terrified of having this massive collision with my dog that could end my agility career, his agility career, or both.  I've been hurt before (many times...soccer goalie...I've broken bones).  So I'm not afraid of bumps and bruises...I'm afraid of just taking us both out of the game.

    Have I ever mentioned that I'm paranoid and a worrier? \
     
    ETA: What my commands mean to ME
     
    Get out - Move away from me, whichever side you're on (so if he's to the left of me, he needs to get farther out to the left, if he's to the right, move away right)
     
    Left - Turn left
     
    Right - Turn right
     
    Wrap - Tight turn, come around (this is BRAND new, so HE doesn't know what it means yet, though I do).
     
    Go - Go on ahead, straight line
     
    Come - Come back, follow me (basically, come into me).
     
    We have NOTHING for a switch command yet, because neither of us is that far in training.
    • Gold Top Dog
    oh we all do that Xeph. Last night I even ran straight into the side of a tunnel and fell on my face. Practice and keep plugging away. Maybe do only shorter, simpler sequences for a bit?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yeah, if you don't have a switch, which is the precursor or the command for rear crosses, then you've got a long way to go.  You've been doing this for a year right?  Well, keep plugging away.  Definitely work on more flat work and forget about the obstacles for a while.  You can use a chair or a tree for "outs" and crosses.  You can use cones, anything really.  I've used buckets before too.  You can practice all your commands without a single obstacle and I highly recommend it.  Agility is 20% obstacles and the rest is all handling.

    ETA: in my first trial with Kota, we collided after coming out of the chute.  Dogs curve TOWARDS you in the chute so don't try crosses or pushes there.  Do them before!  lolll