Could this be separation anxiety in rescued pup

reneegavin

Ok, I bought the capsules. You're sure it's safe for puppies?

Absolutely  Renee --  I'm going to send you some information I've collected in a PM -- just because it's too much to post for those who don't need it.  I work a lot with dogs who have IMHA (immune-mediated hemolytic anemia) and dogs who use herbs to help aid liver function and help protect the body from the big pharmaceuticals they have to use for that -- and it's all ages of dogs.   I use a lot of alternative stuff myself because I tend to have some pretty nasty drug reactions (and I have to be jolly well careful of the herbs too -- we're talking I get some major allergic reactions to a lot of things) so I've had to learn herbs and alternative stuff to cope with that.  So I've learned not only from books but from my regular vet, and several specialist holistic vets as well.

As with anything you start "new" (pharmaceutical, food, herb or ANY thing in this life) you always watch for that potential reaction.  I can break out in hives every bit as badly if I wind up getting a tiny taste of chipotle as I can from taking an antibiotic I'm suddenly sensitive to (Bactrim was the altes t that blew me out in massive hives).  So it is always best to make sure you bring your vet into the loop.

I can't blame vets (and doctors) -- there are a lot of herbs done badly.  People tend to put their brains on hold and somehow assume they can abuse a thing just because it's 'an herb so I can use LOTS of it".  No -- you need to do what is sensible and works for that particular thing ... and be cautious.  You also need to use an excellent quality of herb. 

I wouldn't tell you to find valerian "anywhere".  GNC is a good quality!  However, don't try to squirt it on his food.  Their capsules are *typically* gelcaps.  And  it is liquid inside.  They tend to be more potent than the typical ground-herb-in-a-capsule -- so if you've gotten the capsules then give him one. 

 You could pierce it (be careful) or snip it with scissors and squirt the liquid inside into a bit of peanut butter.  It's a more potent decoction than you'd find in a normal tincture.  (sorry -- I'm not trying to confuse you -- when you take a plant and use alcohol, glycerite or some liquid to draw the essence of that plant into the liquid -- they call that "decoction".  Very similar -- if you "decoct" an herb with water -- you make a "tea".  It's kind of a whole different vocabulary).

That would get it in him an have it absorb more quickly than putting it in his food (he's more apt to take it easily in the peanut butter or in tahini than in food because the peanut butter or tahini are a more complimentary taste/smell with the herb in that case).  It will absorb faster than if his body has to process his whole meal to get to the herb.

Don't be misled by amounts -- the word "dose" as it applies to herbs depends on what you need the herb to do but MOSTLY on the quality of the herb.  What's in that GNC capsule is a TINY amount compared to what I told you to use of the tincture.  But in this case what's in that caplet is more potent (and I happen to be familiar with GNC's product).

It's more about quality and form than about milligrams.  Because powder, tincture, or the high potentcy that GNC's valerian caps are -- they're not "typical" but it is a good quality and I can tell you from experience it IS safe.  I'll send you the other information and it should help make it clear. 

I ended up getting the capsules at my local pharmacy (CVS). I read the dosing chart sent by another member, and after doing the calculation, he would get 1/4 of the recommended adult dosage. Also, how quickly will it work?

Dogs tend to metabolize more quickly than we do but figure 30 min's or so, is my guess. Don't expect to see some dramatic change in behavior. It's just not like that. I used it only 1 time when I took Shane to work and although I *think* it calmed him down, I wasn't 100% sure. Good luck and let us know how things are going.

I talked to the foster yesterday, and she said that he doesn't have separation anxiety, he simply doesn't know we're his family yet and that this is his permanent home. She also said he's never been truly alone before, always with people or the other foster dogs. I've been able to push back all of my appts and take off a week of my bookkeeping, but that's the best I'm going to be able to do as far as not leaving him alone. As of next Wed, I'm going to have a lot of stuff to make up outside of the house. I can make sure he doesn't have to stay alone until then, and work on a quickened version of the counter conditioning. I have to hope that works, because if not, he may need to find a family that either stays home or can take him everywhere, and I truly hope that's not the case :(

It's a shame that the foster home didn't help him become more independent while he was with them.  I disagree with her opinion about whether he has SA, based on your posts.  I hope you don't have to return him to the rescue as he will become more stressed with each change of environment since it seems apparent he wasn't properly socialized.  I don't mean to sound like I think the foster mom wasn't a loving and caring person but there is more to fostering than just housing a dog, IMO. This is especially true for a puppy, as the critical socializaton period is so short and so many dogs end up in shelters because they were never properly socialized.  The number one reason most dogs are surrendered to shelters or rescues involve behavior problems.  Many of these dogs are euthed because they can't be adopted out successfully.  I hope you can work on the counter conditioning and I  feel you can overcome the problem with time and motivation.

I agree....I don't think the dogs are properly socialized and this is the EXACT reason I didn't want to adopt from a rescue this time. Don't get me wrong, I think they are doing a WONDERFUL thing, but we've had issues with rescued pups. Our current dog had many issues that took a long time to fix. We had one who had serious aggression issues who after 6 months of hiring 4 different trainers, 2 of whom came to our house, and spending literally every waking moment training this dog, only to find out that he couldn't be fixed. He bit my husband more times than I could count, bit my daughter, luckily she was wearing snow pants at the time. He and his brother both ended up being returned for aggression issues. My hubby and dd talked me into another rescue, and now this is the situation. I'm just so frustrated. I've worked on SO many different issues, and was willing to take on a few more, but unless I find a way to be able to leave my home, I don't know what I will be able to do.

Don't give up hope.  He's only been with you a very short time and overcoming the anxiety will be much easier than the aggression issue.  You're to be commended for adopting but I agree that not all rescues are well informed or even honest about the dogs they adopt out.   Rescues are often overwhelmed and they desperately want to save the dogs in their care but some of them don't know much about dog behavior problems.  I truly believe that SA is one of the easier problems to deal with if you have the right information and motivation.  He may never be completely at ease when alone but he can be taught to cope. 

Have you enrolled in a puppy class?  This can often help build a dog's confidence which will help with his anxiety. 

JackieG

Have you enrolled in a puppy class?  This can often help build a dog's confidence which will help with his anxiety. 

I agree with everything Jackie said but especially this. I started Shane in classes the week after we brought him home and I think it helped immensely. For one, it helped he and I form a different type of bond. He'd been majorly velcro with me but in a bit of a fearful way. Now he's still a bit velcro-like but in a happier, content way and we had a lot of fun in the classes.

I also agree that this SA issue is much easier to deal with than aggression. It's going to take time for him to learn that this is his new home and he's safe there. If you hang around this forum long enough, and I hope you will, you'll find that every new addition comes with challenges. That includes purebred puppies to senior citizens. I'd like to think that each of them teaches us something but I know the lessons can be overwhelming. Hang in there and try not to look to far ahead. You may have to look closely for the baby steps in the right direction but I'll bet you'll start to see them soon.

I have contacted a trainer who is willing to come to our house. She said to send her a video of him in his crate for 30 min, and she will have a better idea if this truly is SA and if it seems to be something that can be dealt with while I still leave the home. Keeping fingers crossed!

That's a perfect idea. It's so much easier to work on something like when you can actually see what's going on. One of the rescues I work with had a really tough case not long ago and with the help of a good trainer, the dog was able to be adopted out and is doing great. I hope the same will true for you. Good luck!

I'm glad you've got a trainer coming out and hope she's got some good guidance for you.  As Cathy said previously, I hope you stick around and keep us updated. 

Just wondering if anyone has either heard of or used Calmasure with their pet? It has both valerian root and l-theanine in it?

reneegavin

Just wondering if anyone has either heard of or used Calmasure with their pet? It has both valerian root and l-theanine in it?

I'd never heard of it but it looks interesting. I couldn't tell how you go about purchasing it though. Is it something you have to get through your vet? If you try it, I'd love to know what you think.

Just wanted to give a quick update on Bosco after meeting with the trainer. By watching the video, she does think it is a separation issue, but is a bit concerned that he developed it after being with us for such a short period. We practiced some exercises of me leaving, and putting my shoes on, and me closing the door after stepping out were his triggers. She said to practice putting my shoes on throughout the day and to start at stepping out the door without closing it, then treating him when he doesn't whine. At that point, she said she could foresee me getting to a 15-20 min trip within 2 weeks (not good). We then put a thunder shirt on him, sprayed DAP spray in his crate, and put on a relaxing CD for dogs. We opened the window in the room he is in, all left the house, and stood under that window for about 3 minutes.....NO SOUND...HOLY COW!!! She said that I could actually practice leaving for around 10 minutes, but listening under the window before and after I go. She said I could go ahead and give him the valerian root as well. If all goes well, I could then extend the time, and things could be well much quicker. If it was just a fluke, she believes, he will be able to stay for around 2 hours in a month, which will not work for me. Therefore, I really hope those aids work for us. She also said another option for some of my trips would be to leave him in the car. We tried him out there for around 5 minutes, and he showed no signs of anxiety. I'm just not sure if my hubby would want to chance his car getting destroyed.

Sounds like you've got a good plan and that it's already helping.   Most of her tips are exactly what the articles I posted and the McConnell booklet suggest.  :)   It's so much easier to understand and follow with a trainer showing you exactly how to do the protocol.  :)