Could this be separation anxiety in rescued pup

    • Gold Top Dog

    reneegavin
    I'm just not sure if my hubby would want to chance his car getting destroyed.

     

    Get a crate for the car if you're unsure of any damage that could happen. My Tootsie goes everywhere with me in the car and the worst damage shes created is massive amounts of dog hair, but shes been riding in the car since she was 10 weeks, shes now 8. Good luck!

    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm not sure if the crate would cause him to go into a panic or not. If only I could find a way to allow him free reign of the living room without having access to the couches (which he chews on) or my other dog (who lays on the couch), I think he would be fine. He is fine when laying there during the day with her if I go upstairs, but twice him and my other dog got into a scary sounding brawl that I had to break up, so I wouldn't want to chance that happening while I was gone. My other dog has had free reign of the house for about 1 1/2 years now. She climbs up on the couch and happily goes to sleep ( I think she actually looks forward to it!)> Do you think it would be terrible to put her in her crate next to him when we leave? I'm thinking it would be very unfair to her, but maybe if he didn't see her walking around, it would be better??
    • Gold Top Dog

    Is it possible to set up an x-pen so that he's in that room with some more area than a crate allows but still couldn't get on the couch or get into a brawl with the other dog?

    Regarding the comment that it was surprising that this was separation anxiety after being with you such a short time, I think in some cases it's specifically because it's been such a short time. Imagine how insecure they must feel. Shane is much better now than when we first brought him home. I don't think it was so much that he was attached to me or my husband but he just didn't want to be left alone and didn't trust that we (or anyone) would come back. The 1st few times I took him in the car, he drooled like crazy and even threw up one time. Now he loves car rides. I'm sure he worried about where this latest trip was taking him.

    • Gold Top Dog
    Although I'm trying to have faith in this program, even though I will have to speed it up a bit, I still don't understand by me spending every waking moment with him will help him to get over his separation anxiety. I also know several people who had separation issues like this, and the people just let them get used to the crate even though they hated it....they grew to love it!
    • Gold Top Dog

    reneegavin
    I still don't understand by me spending every waking moment with him will help him to get over his separation anxiety.

    It won't.  What will get him over the SA is following the step by step methods of desensitizing him to your "departure" throughout the day. You can't go faster in the process than the dog can handle without him becoming pushed over his emotional threshold which sets the progress back.  The point is to change how he feels emotionally about you leaving and not about spending every waking moment with him.  It seemed from what you posted that you have made progress and, though it may seem slow, it tends to snowball if you stick with it.

    You should be teaching him the crate is a good place in addition to working on the SA, using the same basic principal. 

    • Gold Top Dog
    (Knock on wood!!!)...Tonight, my husband left Bosco with his thundershirt, cd, and valerian root for 8 minutes and Bosco did fantastic! He then left him awhile later for 14 minutes.....and again, fantastic!!!! Please let this mean that he never even had full blown SA to begin with....if that's the case, we get to keep a truly fantastic pup!
    • Gold Top Dog

    reneegavin
    (Knock on wood!!!)...Tonight, my husband left Bosco with his thundershirt, cd, and valerian root for 8 minutes and Bosco did fantastic! He then left him awhile later for 14 minutes.....and again, fantastic!!!! Please let this mean that he never even had full blown SA to begin with....if that's the case, we get to keep a truly fantastic pup!

    It sounds like the desensitization is working.  Just like any sort of behavior issue, there are different levels of severity and some dogs have such severe anxiety when left alone that the program can take longer.  Bosco seems to be doing well with the program and if he were my dog, I'd continue doing what you're doing and gradually increasing the time he's left alone.  Great job. :)

    • Gold Top Dog
    Today, we're going to leave him for a 15 min trip, then a 30...tommorrow, a 30, then later a 45....etc...... Wednesday, I have 2-90 minute trips to make and Thursday night, we are going to my dd's open house at school and will be gone from 2-3 hours, so hopefully, this continues to go forward.
    • Gold Top Dog

    Good job!!  And this is an encouragement to other people who have taken shelter dogs, discovered a problem, and then are torn about what to do.

    Training WORKS -- each dog is different, but learning "how" to teach them can be a hurdle in and of itself!!  Good job!!  It's not perfect yet, and you'll be training *forever*, but you've got a darned good beginning here!! RAH!

    • Gold Top Dog
    We're back to 5 minutes!
    • Gold Top Dog

    reneegavin
    We're back to 5 minutes!

    switch it up a bit -- and don't give up.  Do it during the evening when more than one person is there -- have one of you 'leave' and the other spring in and 'reward' and LEAVE and just keep on keeping on.  he **will** get it. 

    Honestly?  When the path is too "easy" they don't learn the lesson as well -- he'll get it!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Little steps, never putting him over his threshold, are the key.  You've got to move forward at your dog's pace, regardless of what timeline you set.  I wouldn't change up your program other than being aware that you pushed him beyond his ability to cope and set things back a bit.  It's something most of us have done in some sort of training at one time or another.  The easier you make this for him to succeed the quicker you'll get the payoff. 

    • Gold Top Dog
    We tried to leave Bosco for an hour 4 different times over the weekend, and he did not do so well. Today, we took a 5 minute trip, which he did good on, then a 6 minute trip...he made it to 5 minutes on this one, then started to whine. Should I up it to 10 minutes tomorrow and keep it there until he can get to 10 minutes quietly, or would I actually have to up it a minute at at time?! The thundershirt and cd don't really seem to be helping anymore, and our vet said to stop the valerian root before his neutering.
    • Gold Top Dog

    From one of the articles I linked previously:

    Graduated Planned Departures

    If the dog is not too anxious when presented with departure cues, or once habituation to departure cues has occurred, the owner is ready to begin graduated planned departures. Using short departures, we attempt to desensitize the dog to the owner leaving and being gone. These departures are as much like real departures as possible with two exceptions. First, the departures are going to initially be very short. Second, as the owner departs they leave a new and consistent cue or signal for the dog. In other words, the owner must make this departure look just like the real thing, if they always take their car keys and briefcase when they go then they must do so on a planned departure. If they always leave in their car, they must drive away. Then the initial departure will be very short, 1-5 minutes or less so that the dog does not engage in any separation related behaviors. But, they will leave the dog a new cue or signal like the radio or television or air freshner to aid the dog in distinguishing this departure from a real or work departure. If possible, the dog should be left in a novel location perhaps the place the owner would like to leave the dog if it did not engage in separation related distress behaviors. The message we want to send to the dog "the owner is only gone for a short time, they are coming right back and I can be good". The length of the departure is slowly increased at 3-5 minute intervals with short departures interspersed with longer ones. The increase must be irregular, not a progression. The new cue is only used on a planned departure, never when the owner must be gone for long periods of time. If the dog is destructive or engaged in any separation-related behaviors during a planned departure, then the owner was gone too long and the next departure should be shorter. For dogs that vocalize on owner departure, an audiotape should be set to monitor the pet's behavior. Owners must keep initial departures short enough so as not to elicit separation distress. When desensitization is done improperly, sensitization can occur and the problem behavior worsens. Usually once a dog can be left on a planned departure for 2 hours, they can usually be left all day. The cue or signal can be gradually phased out, or can be used for as long as the owner feels it is necessary. Most importantly, the owner cannot quickly go from a 20 minute planned departure to a 3 hour one. This can elicit separation-related distress and may render the cue useless. During training, owners should be encouraged to keep journals to assess progress and treatment success.

    • Gold Top Dog
    Ok, I'm a bit confused. I always say "Be good guys, I'll be right back" when leaving. Should I continue to say that on my "planned departures"? Also, it says to gradually increase the time by 3-5 minutes. Again, if I add 5 minutes todya (which takes me up to 10), and he only makes it 7 minutes, should I continue to go for 10 until he CAN make it before adding another 5 minutes? It says to mix short and long departures. Would a long departure at this point be the 10 minute one?? We were putting him in his crate (he has to be in a crate at this age) with his thundershirt and a cd playing. Should we switch that to the TV on the planned departures? As far as when we must be gone for long periods, I thought that wasn't allowed at all until we built up time? This is very confusing!