Could this be separation anxiety in rescued pup

reneegavin

I may try to find this valerian, but that would mean leaving him even longer!

Call around *before* you go.  Any health store (even a little Mom 'n Pop type store) should have valerian tincture.  It **will** make this easier -- and you don't have to save it for "big trips" -- if you get him calmed down from the start it is then easier to train him.

What Jackie said about having the two dogs be visually separated -- that will make things easier.  Even my pug gets guardy when somebuddy walks by her crate when she's got something she considers "stellar".  But separating them will mean you CAN leave this pup with something yummy. 

Leaving the TV on (and if you have TV or music in other rooms leave them on as well -- that helps insulate the neighbors from noise as well). 

I use valerian all the time and GNC's is a good brand.  You can give him a dropperful (what you can suck up in the dropper by squeezing the bulb at the top a couple of times) -- but do it like I said above.  Mix it in just a tiny bit of peanutbutter and then just scoop it up with your finger and smush into the roof of his mouth (will keep him busy for 15 seconds *smile*)

Valerian is more like a "tonic" in that "more" isn't stronger, it is stored by the body and used a bit at a time.  So a dropper full should keep him dialed back a bit for about 6 hours. 

 FYI -- valerian is a nervine herb.  That means it  *is* a relaxant (it relaxes muscles more than the mind) -- in other words one of the reasons it helps is it doesn't make him feel foggy or disoriented.  It JUST relaxes his body (which tends to relax his state of mind).  Isn't a 'sedative' (won't put him to sleep) but it works on the nervous system to dial him back.  If he's tired, he will sleep more easily.  But you'll be more apt to hear a big sigh than a snore.  But he'll love it mixed with the peanut butter.

herbs are essentially plants -- so the word "dose" loses meaning.  Some herbs are strong, some aren't.  Valerian isn't a particularly strong-acting herb -- strong-SMELLING, oh yes.  But it doesn't have a violent effect. 

How much of a dose?  It depends on what you want it to do and for how long.  That's a lot like saying "how many tomatos do you use in spaghetti sauce?" -- well, it depends.  What kind of sauce you're making, what kind of tomatos, how *much* sauce you want, and how good th tomatos themselves are!  Think also of chamomile tea -- a 'capsule' (normally a "dose";) only holds about 1/4 teas.  But to make a cup of chammomile tea?  you'd need close to a tablespoon of the buds and a teaspoon or better of crushed buds which is what is in a teabag. 

Same thing with herbs -- GNC is a good quality - that one should work well for you.

Rescue Remedy is a flower *essence* -- completely different thing.  VERY very very mild.  don't bother with water -- just lift his lip and dribble it over his gums (you don't even have to get it behind his teeth unless that's easy.  You **can** put the tip of that weirdo little dropper (which is curved - you'll see when you open it) behind his canine tooth and squirt.  You don't need to measure it -- just squirt it in -- you won't over dose him (cos it's not going to absorb as well as a human's would if they religiously put it under their tongue and held it there -- this is a dog -- he won't do that *smile*)

In fact, wtih Rescue Remedy you can load the first couple of doses.  That means give it now, then in another 5 minutes, and then again a 3rd time in another five minutes IF YOU NEED to.  Depends on the individual dog how RR works.

It's not like a pharmaceutical that will over-dose him.   flower essences are very mild and they are **VERY** individual.  I rarely use Rescue Remedy -- doesn't work on ME at all.  But I've had a couple of dogs that really REALLY responded to it.  It's just very individual.  But "loading" that first dose is how my holistic vet told me to do it. 

This is taken from Colorado State University in Fort Collins.  Be sure you mention it to your vet (since he's having neuter surgery soon) as it can have an effect on how other drugs work.

13 Valerian is spasmolytic, vasodilatory, anti-arrhythmic, and antidepressant. It can help to prevent development of the withdrawal syndrome from abrupt diazepam cessation. Valerian displays affinity for GABAA receptors and modulates GABA neurotransmission. It inhibits GABA reuptake, is a serotonin 5-HTA agonist, inhibits monoamine oxidase uptake, and has activity at adenosine receptors.14

reneegavin

I'm guessing rescue remedy might not be a great idea since he is scheduled to be neutered in 3 weeks.

It would have absolutely no effect on a neuter whatsoever.  You could give it to him the day OF wtihout any problem.  Of any alternative remedies out there, flower essences are extremely benign.  They tend to react more on emotions than any other thing.  (Rescue Remedy is the most popular by far -- but there are many, many different flower essence remedies out there by Bach.)

JackieG

Be sure you mention it to your vet (since he's having neuter surgery soon) as it can have an effect on how other drugs work.

Tell your vet, but that far out it's not going to be problematic (and I've often used it pre-surgery with my regular vet's consent for a dog overly sensitive to a potential sedative/anesthesia pairing -- we did that a LOT with my sheltie/corgi mix). 

Because it has an emotional effect on some it, too, can be individual in how strongly it acts.  But probably more so because it's processed secondarily by the liver -- so in a case where I know for sure a dog has a liver shunt, for example, you don't give valerian there - you'd use another nervine herb, like passionflower, instead.

But the second of Jackie's paragraphs she copied in -- that's the key to why it will likely help this pup so much.  As a natural it exits the body pretty fast (it won't bother that upcoming surgery but it's a good thing to make sure your vet is in the loop on this, **and** let the vet know how it affects him).

It's all sort of the "stress causes stress" thing -- and it helps break that cycle by helping the body itself relax so he can dial back and think.  It's one of the reasons why it helps in training as much as it does -- because it dials back the physical stress symptoms, so the dog CAN **think** beyond that physical response.  That's not a scientific way to say it -- but it's laymen's language for how it works. 

Just wanted her to know that she should mention it to her vet so they are aware.  I know my vets always ask what prescription and herbal supplements my dogs are getting before any sort of treatment but not all ask so better safe than sorry.

 Any sort of herbal or prescription drug should be used in conjunction with the behavior modification methods mentioned in the articles I posted.

Good luck and keep us posted. 

reneegavin

Sort of the tough love method

Doesn't work for SA. 

 When you get a chance read the articles I found for you as it will explain why you have to do this in tiny steps to prevent making it worse.  I don't know about which is better but my guess would be the Valerian root.  Get the capsules if that's all you can find would be my advice.

ETA - I wouldn't worry about the surgery and discontinuing either at all at this point. If you find that either works and you're still using it a week before the surgery, give your vet a call and let them know. They can advise but I would guess using it up until the day before should be fine.