Is my dog not the right one for me?

 I should also note that since that incident at the dog park, I haven't brought him there. He still walks a few times a day (sees other dogs and people), goes for runs, and even follows me on my mountain bike off leash when I head out to the trail (I do this very early when no one is on the trails). But the point I wanted to make was, he is not socializing with other dogs and people as much as he used to. This could perhaps be one of the problems?

When we first training Oliver to sleep in his crate, he always used to cry and want to come out. He'd sleep right in my girlfriend or my own lap. There were some days where I'd sleep with him on the floor too. However, we've stopped doing this ever since he got neutered.

Oliver is at a very confusing age right now, it is the age where most dogs get surrendered to shelters because of behavioral issues.  Only you can decide if he is the right dog for you.  It sounds like you want to do everything right but have been getting very frustrated with the mixed information you are receiving. He is still young but there may be some catching up to do to get him to a level you may feel comfortable with him. Read up on the breed, Bull Terriers are a little different then other dogs and you have to grasp a full understanding on what is going on.

This is just my opinion but the second "behaviorist" sounds a little odd in his responses.  What type of degree or training does this person have to be labeled as a behaviorist?  To answer through text and e-mails also seems rather inappropriate and unprofessional. I am not going to comment on the video or training methods simply because I don't think this is the place to discuss a sensitive case where I don't know the dog.  However, I do think a group classes where he is on leash and learning proper manners around other dogs may be a better option then privet one-on-one trainers. Also much cheaper and you will be more involved personally with the dog.

If you do want to continue seeing a trainer I would recommend seeking out someone who has experience in bully breeds and has the credentials to go along with it. Read up on the trainer's background before allowing them to guide you with handling your dog.

 

Xebby

Oliver is at a very confusing age right now, it is the age where most dogs get surrendered to shelters because of behavioral issues.  Only you can decide if he is the right dog for you.  It sounds like you want to do everything right but have been getting very frustrated with the mixed information you are receiving. He is still young but there may be some catching up to do to get him to a level you may feel comfortable with him. Read up on the breed, Bull Terriers are a little different then other dogs and you have to grasp a full understanding on what is going on.

This is just my opinion but the second "behaviorist" sounds a little odd in his responses.  What type of degree or training does this person have to be labeled as a behaviorist?  To answer through text and e-mails also seems rather inappropriate and unprofessional. I am not going to comment on the video or training methods simply because I don't think this is the place to discuss a sensitive case where I don't know the dog.  However, I do think a group classes where he is on leash and learning proper manners around other dogs may be a better option then privet one-on-one trainers. Also much cheaper and you will be more involved personally with the dog.

If you do want to continue seeing a trainer I would recommend seeking out someone who has experience in bully breeds and has the credentials to go along with it. Read up on the trainer's background before allowing them to guide you with handling your dog.

 

Hi Xebby,
Thanks for the quick reply, I appreciate it. I should clarify that I've only seen and paid one trainer, and he is the one I'm talking about throughout the whole post. I worded it out a bit odd, my apologies. I have spoken to another behaviorist through email and she recommend trying the method that we are using in the video vs the shock collar, spray bottle, etc. I got the response from the paid trainer after I showed him the video where I wasn't using his method.

To be honest, I looked up quite a few trainers/behaviorist and there's just so many. Countless positive reviews from "clients" and what not, but who knows what is true. The dog park incident scared me and I went with what I could afford, and who to me sounded the most confident, but that maybe wasn't the best choice. It's just a bit disheartening to hear those words from the "behaviorist" that I paid and trust(ed).

Thank you for the suggestions on the socialization classes. I see the classes posted on various websites and shops all the time but it never really crossed my mind of putting him in one just because I've been so hesitant about having him near other animals and people. I will definitely look into that.

 

 

 

JHNguyen89

What my girlfriend is doing here is what was suggested by another behaviorist who recently spoke to. The idea here is to stay in front of the crate and calmly tell him to be quiet until he stops. When he finally does, that's when you walk away.

Both times he stopped barking there was no praise, no reward for being quiet.  When she stood in front of the crate repeating "quiet" over and over with no effect it shows that the word quiet has no meaning to the dog.  When the dog remains quiet for ten seconds, say "good quiet" in a voice that actually conveys to the dog that he has done something good. 

You could benefit from reading some books on dog behavior and how dogs learn.  Culture Clash by Jean Donladson and Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor are two that would help you.

Fantastic 95% of the time is only okay if you are telling us the other 5% he has say housebreaking issues or eats a shoe now and then. Biting and Aggression is NEVER okay. My honest response is No he is not the right dog for your home and family. ( Or more accurately , you are not the right owners) He is a Lovely boy and I am sure you would really like to keep him, however you are missing some important factors. Aggressive behavior does not just suddenly begin with out Trauma or Disease.  It is far more likely that he had been testing you and your boundaries all along and did not receive the limits and corrections he needed.  His interaction with the Grandmother may have been as simple as puppy rough housing, which because of the fright and pain, was mis interperated.  The dog park interaction is proof positive that not all dogs need to be off lead and supervising themselves.  (I'll admit it I hate dog parks. Too many things too often go wrong there). I would be furious is it had been my dog that your dog attacked. The advice you have gotten from the behaviorists is BAD.  If , indeed he has issues with insecurity and seperation, the last thing he needs is either a shock collar or even the milder spray bottle correction. It is similar to taking a shy child and trying to fix the shyness by punishing them when they failed to be bubbly happy go lucky kids.  Terriers require a different approach than many softer breeds.  Upping the physical retaliation is going to get you no where.  He is a very smart breed and needs to be mentally challenged.  I would be working him with obedience classes, nose work and never ever allowing him to be alone with others without my personal hands on supervision.  This Pretty Boy may end up being taken from you if he inflicts a bite that breaks skin and is reported. And You would not be doing him a favor making sure his bites are not reported. Since it could be a stranger or child next time who will not be forgiving. Law suits from dog bites are expensive!  Keeping him crated excessively in a small environment is not the answer either. It will only intensify whatever he is going through. He NEEDS hands on work and training.  From the way you wrote about him I get the strong feeling all of you are already more than a little afraid of him. He knows it. Consider either rehoming him with someone who is familiar with the breed and has experience in training. If you do not do this then you need to get him and yourselves in training classes, and you'll need to be doing the practice work EVERY day. This does not mean taking him to a trainer and then returning to get him "trained" weeks or months later. If you do not understand what you are doing with him you'll undo the training done by anyone you hire.  He needs to have a job, a clear understanding of what responses are desired and acceptable and what are not. You sound like a caring person , just not experienced enough to truly handle a dog who could be potentially dangerous if not competently trained. I have a large breed of dog that could also be a hazzard if not raised and trained correctly. We actually have 6 of them. Had we not done our due diligence, educated oursleves about the breed, training and handling I would not be able to manage even one of our breed. While we are recognized Breeders in Rhodesian Ridgebacks we do not breed puppies very often. It takes a ton of work to sort through the stacks of applicants and find the perfect owners.  It is never good enough to pick someone because they are "Nice". It is necessary to eliminate the folks who do not understand the breed and  the ones who want to look Macho with a RR on their lead. Then sort through the ones who will actually be willing to do the work, put in the effort to raise a dog properly. Best of Luck to all of you. 

the waking up aggression makes me wonder. BT can have some neurological things that go on including aggression, repetitive spinning behavior etc. I wonder if this isn't a hint at that sort of thing being an issue. Have you consulted with your vet about the possibility of this at least in part being a neurological issue? Are you in touch with his breeder? Are they the responsible sort that has some sort of idea what it is the line and what his parents were like? Do they have any input for you? Two terrier males is general a bad idea anyways but I am wondering about the waking up thing...has his hearing been checked? Does that seem normal? Does he "startle" a lot?

I have to admit that I wanted to dodge the question about this being the right dog for you.  I agree with Bonita that it's probably not.  You should contact the breeder, if you are in touch, as the first step in finding a place for this dog.  Rehoming to anyone unfamilar to the breed and to this particular dog's aggression issues isn't something I'd recommend.  Full disclosure about his temperment is necessary and the only right thing to do. You can contact some BT rescue groups for help.  I never recommend JRT's to the inexperienced and adding another terrier to your household was not the best decision.  Thoroughly researching breeds is a must when acquiring a dog.  I know hindsight is 20/20 which is why research beforehand is so important.

Very few dog training classes will allow a dog with dog dog aggresion and aggression toward people. 

I do still recommend the books I posted earlier.  Especially before you get another dog. Good luck.

Thanks again for the replies.

The thing is, if I can possibly fix this or learn how to handle it appropriately in the future, I would love to keep Oliver. I do have the time and can get the money for more training, but the last behaviorist I had spent the money on has left a bad taste in my mouth.

But if it's a big no to have two terriers, then perhaps rehoming to a responsible owner without another dog may be the best way to go.

I have contacted the breeders but have not gotten a response. I am in the process of finding the owners of the other pups since he is AKC registered. I've taken him to the vet, and while he didn't do any special blood work on him, he told me Oliver was just fine and likely just needs a trainer.

 I wish you well in whatever decision you make with him - he is a handsome boy.  The others have given good advice and I can just iterate that I wonder why when he first wakes he is aggressive or guardy and that bull terriers aren't really great dog park dogs anyway.

I really am posting to say for anyone that reads this thread a "shock collar" is absolutely the wrong tool for an aggressive dog.  Worst decision ever (not by you by the so-called behaviorist) and mind you an am not averse to using an e-collar appropriately

JHNguyen89

But if it's a big no to have two terriers, then perhaps rehoming to a responsible owner without another dog may be the best way to go.

 

 

 I wouldn't try to rehome this dog without the guidance of a rescue or the breeder.  Since you haven't heard back from the breeder, go through a rescue group if you decide to rehome.  

 

Thank you, and yes he is a great boy with such a character. Rehoming is something in the back of my mind, but I hope to keep him and work on him for the time being. Of course, after reading about the dog parks, I've learned the same thing that dog parks in general aren't the best place for some dogs.

The past weekend he has been progressing, and we just began doing what we are doing in the video maybe 3-4 days ago. No incidents where he growled through the crate. However, when the same behaviorist saw the video and told me to basically consider re-homing him, it really made me think about it and whether or not I'm getting anywhere at all.

Could you give us the nearest major city to you? Perhaps someone knows of a trainer or behaviorist in your area who is actually worthwhile. You are obviously very devoted to doing whatever is best for your dogs, and I wanted. To commend your efforts there. I haven't seen your video yet, and either way, it wouldn't be ethical of me to give any sorts of recommendations, since I have no qualification and haven't personally evaluated the dog. I can only say that I disagree with your behaviorist, which is why I am hoping that perhaps someone can refer you to a reputable person.

I will leave this to the professionals, but I have to say i cringed when i read what the "behaviorist" told you to do.  I can't imagine how a shock collar or a water bottle will help a dog with fear aggression, I would think that would only exacerbate the situation....sometimes you have to go through a few different trainers until you find one that you are comfortable with.

How is his hearing?