Dog Community

Pound Rescue Male Shih Tzu, keeps sending me to the ER. at wits end

Posted : 1/23/2012 11:15:13 PM

Hello I guess I've come here as a last resort. I'm looking for help with people that understand better the breed than I, and help me understand what is happening. Back in July I went to the pound to see a Male Shih Tzu that was on their website. They weren't promoting him like the other animals, and when I called to ask about him the guy in charge just hesitated and said... "Well.. he can be shy" I thought to myself... OK.. what a strange answer. He went on to tell me that he won't let anyone hold, or manage him and if he found someone that he would 'go to' then everything should be fine. .... We had just lost one of our dogs to a rouge truck, two months prior. I was looking to get another dog for the family and our other dog Molly, (a rotti/lab) When I went to see Henry he walked over to me and let me hold him. I spent a few minutes with him and just fell in love. His eyes were so kind, and I could tell that there were things that if he could tell me he would, but just couldn't. I adopted Henry. He was already fixed, and they told me I could take him then and there. The first thing I did was drive to my Vet's so they could look him over and give him all the shots he needed. After that I took him home, and he was introduced to Molly, and it was love at first site. Nothing out of the ordinary happened until about a week in. I was getting some goo out of Henry's eye and he snapped the tissue out of my hand. I knew that he meant business from his body language. I stepped away and left him be. I guess that was the start of it all. I can't tell you how many times now that Henry has attacked me, but it started shortly after the tissue grab. Usually I could tell there were triggers for his aggression... like with food, or taking things from him... similiar triggers.. I have been to the ER now 5 times. When he bites me he holds on and shakes, it is always my left arm and hand, and once I lifted my arm to get away from him, and he just rose up with me.. he wouldn't let go. The trigger that caused this was I was taking off his winter sweater.. did not like that one bit. I had a huge contusion on my left arm, and puncture marks that no one would believe were from a little dog. One of the most terrifying times was when Henry was on the bed with me and Molly.. I think that I reached down to move his bone. something about his bone.. I saw that he was in that mode to attack so I quickly got up to walk off.. well henry wasn't taking that. He attacked my back. I don't know how he did it but I had this huge area on my back from the attack. As I couldn't see myself I had to walk to my mother's house in the middle of the night so she could help me. I ended up going to the ER for that one also. I guess the attacks that worry me the worst are the ones with seemingly no trigger... he will just, well, attack me. I was petting the cat once and he was standing near by.. as I reached down to pet her he ran over to me and sliced a good chunk of meat out of my hand. This attack is interesting because Molly comes into the picture from here on out.. Molly is my rotti/lab, female, about a year 1/2 old. When Henry attacked me this time Molly intervened... she got between me and Henry and actually took a bite that I suppose I would have gotten. And from then on out, up until just yesterday whenever Henry attacks me Molly intervenes.. It's remarkable as she has never been trained.. there are times that she has really saved me from having some nasty nasty bites. I have actually seen molly watching me when I am with Henry, almost as if she is determining if everything is OK.. of course she recognizes dog body language better than me. :) I love Henry. I don't know what to do. I have taken him to my Vet and he has no health problems. He is a sweet little dog when he is not attacking me. And i know how that sounds, I do. I called in a behaviorist and do all the things she has taught me to do to make him understand that he is not the one in control. I read everything I can find... I am exhausted. Last night the attack came when I was, again, removing goo from Molly's eye (not henry but molly's eye this time) and he just decided that he did not like that and he reared up to attack me. He got a hold of my left arm as usual, and the second he did Molly intervened. I only have a hematoma from that attack as he wasn't able to get his teeth into me for Molly's intervention. Molly went onto take Henry's bite then swiftly put an end to his domination. She never hurts him, but does something to make him stop. The reason I'm telling you about last night is because I just collapsed emotionally. I sank down on the floor and just cried. Why does he hurt me? What am I doing? Molly came over and sat with me until I got up. Well I guess that's about it. I tried to be as concise as I could. I know I've left stuff out, but the basics are there. Everyone tells me to get rid of him, but I love him and know that this is a learned behavior, so therefore can be unlearned. Thank you for your advice, or thoughts. I don't want to have to rehome him, and to be honest I don't think someone else would put up with this, and probably have him put down. Thank you Andrea, Henry and Molly

tiffy

Posted : 1/23/2012 11:52:41 PM

Sounds like resource guarding. NILIF,should be initiated at once. He should not be allowed on the bed either. Others will be along that could shed more light on this. Also, a vet trip should happen immediately.

JackieG

Posted : 1/24/2012 7:52:50 AM

henrymiller
I called in a behaviorist and do all the things she has taught me to do to make him understand that he is not the one in control. I

How long has it been since you consulted the behaviorist? Can you summarize what she advised you to do and not to do?

Freedom

Posted : 1/24/2012 10:17:33 AM

O Henry, if you only knew how much you are loved, and do NOT need to be doing this!

This is going to take some time to train, and I don't know if you / your body can tolerate it.

NILIF will help, are you familiar with that line of training?

I'd also be interested in what the behavorist advised; because I am strong on positive reinforcement training. Some behavorists still follow the old alpha dog training, dominance rolls, etc, NONE OF WHICH IS GOOD FOR HENRY's issues.

Keep a baggy in the fridge with bits (small bits!) of hot dog, one of cheese, one of boiled chicken breast (no skin or bones). Henry seems to attack when you touch - him or another. Somewhere along the way, he learned that humans can not be trusted to touch nicely. He is protecting himself AND all around him (interesting that he even reacted to you petting the cat!) Keep a collar and short leash on Henry, even in the house.

Any time you do anything with any of the pets, you need to FIRST get a treat bag out. This in itself is going to take some while for YOU to remember. You are so used to reaching for Molly, for your cat. Toss a bite to Henry as you move in to pet Molly. Toss him another as you continue to pet her.

When you clean Molly's eyes, I think you will need to attach his leash to something for a time, so he can't reach you. Toss a treat on the floor to him.

Notice I do NOT have you handing a treat to him; I'm just not sure if Henry is ready for that. Keep it all neutral, away from you.

If you are sitting and want him in your lap, use NILIF to make sure he knows YOU are allowing him to join you. Have a baggie with treats with you. Are you on a recliner? A sofa? Toss a treat down between your legs. Keep him facing away.

I would encourage you to find a behavorist who uses positive reinforcement training methods and work with him / her. Most APDT (American Pet Dog Trainers) use this method. You can find one here:

http://www.apdt.com/petowners/ts/default.aspx

Where does Henry sleep? He should not be on your bed at night. He is going to have to work up to that privilege. Do you crate train? Do he use a crate willingly? These are some things a good behavorist will ask.

Putting on and removing sweaters / coats / jackets: It takes me almost an entire hot dog to get one on or off my Willy without me getting bit. Take out stock in Oscar Meyer hot dogs! Big Smile

In My Opinion, It will take a good 6 months of diligent training on your part to get to a point where you 2 can live together in relative harmony; you will STILL be going through tons of hot dogs, cheese and chicken, but you will be able to let your guard down at that point.

spiritdogs

Posted : 1/24/2012 10:29:58 AM

Whether this is resource guarding, or fear biting, or a combination, you need professional help. The first thing I would do is to call your veterinarian and ask for a referral to a veterinarian or Ph.D. level behaviorist. The nearest veterinary college can also refer you. If you think he's getting angry at you taking items away from him, read "Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs" by Jean Donaldson. There are some easy to follow protocols that might help. Do not be afraid to ask your veterinarian to try medication. Debbie Jacobs' book and website on fearful dogs might help you understand some of the other aids that can assist. It's probably a long shot, but if he's generally anxious, maybe a thundershirt might help. If you hired a someone who is telling you to use dominance, or to be the boss, you might inadvertently be making this worse, so please read: http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance%20statement.pdf Dogs don't form linear hierarchies, so no dog is a "dominant dog" but dominance does exist in the relationships between dogs over valued resources. So, for example, trainers who tell you to go out the door first, or not let your dog precede you on a walk are pretty much wrong. But, those who tell you to learn to communicate, teach your dog to "ask permission" (example: dog wants to go out, you ask the dog to sit, if he does you open the door, if he doesn't then the door won't open) may have a better handle on things.

If you can't find someone close by to help you, I'm happy to try to refer you to a force free trainer or behavior pro who has experience with aggressive dogs. Until you can do that, please ask your own vet about trying a medication trial. Yup, there's doggy Prozac and it has been moderately successful in treating dogs with so called dominance aggression. Your vet would need to assess the dog for that and put him on an appropriate dose. It takes weeks of medication sometimes before you might see a change, and it's always best to use in conjunction with a good behavior modification plan. Also, even if the dog passed a general clinical exam, please ask your veterinarian to do a full thyroid panel and send it to Hemopet. Also, please test for all the tickborne illnesses just in case, as they have been known to trigger aggression in some dogs.

Learn to clicker train - this dog also needs to be able to communicate better with you, and clicker training is hands off, meaning that you do not have to physically manipulate the dog for him to learn. Try some of the simpler exercises at www.clickerlessons.com.

If you want to do more research on your dog's situation, the authorities are:

Psychopharmacology: Dr. Nick Dodman, Dr. Ilana Reisner

Thyroid: Dr. Jean Dodds

Possession Aggression: Jean Donaldson

Behaviorists: http://www.dacvb.org/resources/find/ and http://www.animalbehavior.org/ABSAppliedBehavior/caab-directory

henrymiller

Posted : 1/24/2012 4:33:11 PM

Hi Jackie, The trainer (the first one) was going by the alpha male role... but my vet told me that that has become now outdated and they feel as though other methods need to be implemented for the best results in dogs... from everything I've read I believe my vet is correct, so I only worked with her for one session. The second trainer told me that I needed to be a vet behaviorist or to consider getting rid of him.. so you can see that thus far I have had almost no help. I need to get a vet behaviorist, I know but they are so expensive. I hate even using that, but as a single mom 250 a session is a lot of money for me. I know I need to do it though and am just trying to get through this time until I can afford to do it in around two months I will be able to save enough. My username, henry, is actually my dogs name. My name is Andrea. Just quickly - the first trainer I worked with.. like when henry would see my cat and he did nothing I was to reward him, and I did that.. or when Henry would see my cat and be in a passive state I would reward him. Those seem pretty well adaptable but when it came to the more serious stuff she seemed to shy away from trying to tell him that she, or me, was in charge. :(

henrymiller

Posted : 1/24/2012 4:42:14 PM

Sandie.. Thank you so much for your reply.. I know that we are all busy with our lives so I do appreciate your time and efforts in answer my message. My first trainer (not a behaviorist) but a licensed trainer, she was still doing the alpha male thing, and I know that that is becoming obsolete with the new studies they have done in the past 10-15 years.. so I didn't use her but once. The second person was a behaviorist, but not a vet behaviorist.I got better results from her, but she seemed not scared of henry per se, but not comfortable and I believe that hampered my efforts. For the past week I have been doing counter conditioning.. I normally would never do this, as it always seemed just to reward him for bad behavior, but while reading your post, and NILF it seems as though that is the way to go. Most recently when he tries to chase my cat out of the bedroom (he doesn't like anyone in there but me, molly (my other dog) and himself.. well the second he sees the cat I reach for a treat and give it to him... thus far it seems to be working a little bit, but then this morning there was a big old thing and I had to intervene. sigh. Everyone keeps telling me to get rid of him, but I'm not going to do that! I know that Henry can be rehabilitated. I know I need a Vet Behaviorist and am struggling right now to fit that into our budget. I'm a single mom, 3 boys under 14.. so.. They are with their father right now, he has them 3 months, and then me etc.. so I would really like to work with henry during this time. Thank you for your post.. sorry if this is a bit quick but I'm getting ready to head out the door when I decided to check these real quick. I value what you have said and I'm going to print it off and post it on my wall. (I have posters like, dog body language and such so I can refer quickly, and my boys also!) So you are on my wall! :) Thank you again, and I'm going to come back when I get home and do some more here. Andrea

henrymiller

Posted : 1/24/2012 4:48:53 PM

Spirit.. I already replied a longer response but I just now read your entire post.. Ii totally agree with you about the outdated (and I believe harmful) dog whisperer approach (alpha male) The first person I brought in was trying to do that and I had to tell her that I didn't approve of that... lol.. .well it's sorta funny now but she was not pleased.. but I mean I have done loads of research and talked to my vet who is a wonderful person and great doggie doc. You know, when Henry bites me, it's this whole emotional thing that happens. Molly is involved now (my big dog) and she seems to be in a way guarding me from Henry now... I feel grateful to her, but am wondering my goodness this shouldn't be necessary! Molly is like a movie star dog, although she was never trained to do any of this.. night before last, and what prompted me to write on the boards here.. it was so traumatic because I ended up on Molly's bed crying just sorta rolled up into a ball. She stayed there with me until I got up and then wouldn't let me to the door unless Henry had already left. I'm running out the door, but wanted to let you know how much I appreciate all the time andn effort you took. I know how precious our time is and am so appreciated, truly.

henrymiller

Posted : 1/24/2012 4:51:28 PM

and I am familiar with NILF... I am trying to get through reading all it's aspects right now... I want as much knowledge as possible. it's a hard road as I never know what he's thinking or going to do.. but I love him and will do everything I can to relearn his behaviors. You know, someone at my vets'office (just someone in there with their dog) told me that Henry was a "ruined" dog, and that no matter what I did, it couldn't be helped!!! I feel sorry for the animals in her house!!!!

spiritdogs

Posted : 1/24/2012 6:32:02 PM

Andrea, I private messaged you. I hope you'll take advantage of the opportunity that my friend presented. She's incredibly knowledgeable about the science behind behavior modification and even though it would be better to have someone present with you, she might be your next best bet. For now, try not to "trigger" the dog if you can. Help's on the way.

henrymiller

Posted : 1/24/2012 7:18:30 PM

gosh spiritdogs, I didn't even know that.. I'm new to forums so I need to go and get that message.. I will do that now. i can't thank you enough for your understanding. This has been such a hard time and I will do whatever I must to help him to get better. I can't imagine it's fun for him either! I don't know if dog's show remorse, but after each episode he seems so tender and loving.. maybe that's just me being anthropological (which I do often) but I do love him and dog parents know they are just like our chidren and we take care of them in good as well as bad. I'll go try and find this message and will let you know. Andrea :)

henrymiller

Posted : 1/24/2012 8:26:59 PM

Everyone, Henry just tried to attack me again. It was thwarted once again my Molly, but ai am just near an emotional collapse. It was the same scenario as last night.. I was cleaning molly's eye to put on some medication for an eye infection and henry wasn't even near us... we were on the sofa and he was across the room in his bed.. just as I was about to finish he comes bounding up out of the bed and right for me.. I was standing behind the sofa at this point so just ran into another room and closed the door. It's actually the only attack where there has been no physcial contact. But, the emotional pain is so bad. I don't know what to do if he is going to just attack me when I am having no interaction with him at all. Once when I was in the ER for his bites the nurse said to me... "What, he doesn't like you or something?" and I'm thinking.l gosh I didn't think of that, I mean they aren't human like us.. but now I'm starting to wonder ! I guess I just need to talk, and get moral support as until I can afford a vet behaiorist I need to get through this time. I am heartbroken, I feel like he has betrayed me, and a I know these are human emotions not dogs but I am human and I can't help it, and I shouldn't need to hide from my dog. Thanks everyone for your time and attention to this. I just don't know what to do.

henrymiller

Posted : 1/24/2012 8:41:42 PM

I am going to take him to my vet and ask about some doggie proxac.. maybe that will help until I can hire someone that can give me some major therapy for us both. I keep trying to make of his out of the blue attacks.. I know there is something in the literature about dogs that show aggression for no reason.. I asked my vet and she said those nearly all the time are big dogs. i have a close friend coming to visit me from Ireland next month. I am so afraid that he is going to get hurt. I have learned, mostly, how to stay away from the triggers I've seen that make him attack.. I almost feel as though I need to have a session with him that he knows what I know. I'm really afraid of him getting hurt.

Freedom

Posted : 1/24/2012 9:33:06 PM

Andrea, I am very concerned now that you say you have children in the home. If I understand it correctly, they have not yet been around Henry? They are all boys, and young? Oh dear. I don't know what more to say. You need a pro helping ASAP with this doggie.

Can he be rehabilitated? Most likely yes. Are you the person / family to do it? . . . .

henrymiller

Posted : 1/24/2012 10:01:33 PM

Hi Freedom, Yes I'm a single Mum, they are with their dad for 3 months, and then 6 for me and back and forth. When I first adopted him they were around him the most, and nothing ever happend.. Right at the time they were about to leave to be with their dad is the first time when he snapped the tissue out of my hand while I was cleaning his face.. I was very careful watching them with Henry that week they were with him in the home, and everything seemed good up until that first bite. They had already left at that time, so it seems that I am just the go to it person in the home. I have another dog, Molly (lab/rotti) who has become my body guard. there are times that if she didn't not intervene I am afraid of what could happen. I had no idea how dangerous a small dog's aggression could be. One of the reasons we chose to get a small dog was just because I am so protective and wanted to get a small dog that I wouldn't have to worry about as much... ha! see how well that turned out! I have 3 months to try and rehabilitate Henry. Right now I'm not mad at him but I am sad. I feel as though he hates me or doesn't want to be with me.. it's crazy! I just have never been in any situation like this! I am going to call my Vet tomorrow and discuss maybe getting him some meds... I can't have this happening when the boys return. I keep telling myself.. it's a learned behavior.. it can be unlearned.. and then I see that while I'm saying that I'm hiding in the laundry room. (i am trying to be funny there) Thank you so much for taking the time for me. I need to talk about this, and need to do so with people that understand dogs. I guess this is longer than a quick reply! Andrea and Henry.