I need help-Lilith bit my son in the face

Truley

As for chat, shame on you. You watch but you do not participate? Why? You should have gone directly to a PM if you had an issue, or better yet, joined us in chat. You want to know why? Because there is a member in there who has dealt with this and has first hand knowledge of both the emotional feelings that your now having and the issue of a child bitten by the family dog.

Now, I am no longer a Mod but I am a member and participant HERE, and...

we have a rule here regarding off site issues. It should be applied to this thread. That group is NOT...this forum, and this forum is NOT, that group..

I too Kindred hope you stay and I am willing to keep giving you input and such as long as you are willing to hear it...and heck maybe even if you aren't LOL! ((hugs))

 Vanessa don't let people upset you so much - you need to be focused on your family and Lilith, and I am sure that you will succeed in figuring this out.

I am not an experienced dog person - I often put that out so that others can moderate what I say with that lack of experience. That said anyone around for a while here knows that Bugsy has been and remains a handful at times.

I don't think he would have bitten a child but since i don't have one I can't say for sure.

Anyway..........it is very easy for a high drive dog to snap IMO.  I doubt its a health issue just a management one. When Bugsy was young he got sooooooooooooo excited around kids it was a disaster. He was a mouther for ages and he was worse with kids.  He is a darn confident dog and pushy as well. I was half-heartedly laughing this morning as he was walking me through the neighborhood yet again - he's been with us for over five years and we have tried every darn method of getting him to loose leash walk and at best he does it for 10ft. However it is better, he doesn't get as hyped up around kids......but he can

So what is the point of my post?  She may be a dog that is 3 before she can be trusted completely around the kids.  Your son is so young, as he gets older he can hopefully be taught and given more authority and she will learn to accept it.

for now I say don't panic,settle down, keep perspective, she is a high drive pup and your son is very young.  I am very glad that he is OK, IMO it will be OK with some management

((hugs))

rwbeagles

Truley

As for chat, shame on you. You watch but you do not participate? Why? You should have gone directly to a PM if you had an issue, or better yet, joined us in chat. You want to know why? Because there is a member in there who has dealt with this and has first hand knowledge of both the emotional feelings that your now having and the issue of a child bitten by the family dog.

 

Now, I am no longer a Mod but I am a member and participant HERE, and...

we have a rule here regarding off site issues. It should be applied to this thread. That group is NOT...this forum, and this forum is NOT, that group..

absolutely correct Gina

removed by me

JackieG

Hey, I'd be emotional too in your shoes but you've got bigger things to deal with.  As for Lilith and her biting, she did inhibit her bite which is a good thing.  She obviously is not comfortable around your son.  I don't recall if you said but is your trainer coming to the house to observe?   That would be very helpful.  Hang in there.  I think you can get through this unless Lilith is just wired wrong but it sounds like she's had too much freedom at too young an age.  

 

Thanks Jackie, I've calmed down a bit, I did overreact and I apologize everyone. Usually I can handle things better, but I was so upset about what Lilith did, I couldn't rationalize. I took something small and unintended to heart when I shouldn't have. I'm going to get Rebecca, my trainer to come after our surgeries.  I swear Lilith doesn't have too much freedom, shes either gated, crated or tethered to us and occasionally we untethered her and let her play around with us there always supervised.

FrisbyPI

Kindredspirits, I think you're very smart to get the thyroid testing done--it will help you rule in or rule out a medical issue. I don't know if it's possible to get a sample shipped from Canada to Dr. Dodds, but if you can, it would be well worth it. She does the most comprehensive thyroid testing you can get, and many of us on the IMHA thread have been helped tremendously by her. She is at Hemopet. If you want the web site address with information about shipping a blood sample, just let me know.

 I'm not sure if thats possible, I will ask my vet about it and see what they say. I would like the info to pass it along to my vet, thank you.

Jewlieee- What you said is what concerned me as well. She didn't give much of a warning, the growl/ bite were at like the same time. I'm not sure why Nevyn would stress her out, I try to get him to give her treats occasionally, but usually he is too scared to. I don't know if she can sense that and thats why she avoids him, I'm just not sure. And I won't let this happen again. I'm going to keep them away from eachother until we can figure this out. And thank you for going to try to help me find a behaviorist, I really appreciate it.

 Gina- Thank you :) I'm willing to take any advice you have to offer whether I want to hear it or not or like it or not :)

Karen- I know, I didn't mean to let something small get to me, I did overreact, I'm sorry. I understand what your saying. I guess my only option is to keep them away from eachother. Any things I'm not doing with management that would help? Thank you :)

Thanks everyone, I apologize again for overreacting, my emotions were high, I'm sorry.

 -edited-

Hi, I havent got tonne of experience in this, but i remember when i was young, and the dog we got as a puppy, when he got a little bit older started pushing me around, growling at me, to the point that if i was sitting on the couch, the dog would come over, and growl at me until i got off the couch and he got on, etc.  The vet said it was because the dog thought he was higher in rank than me in the family. 

 I don't know how correct that was, but I was told to kind of exert myself towards the dog, when he growled, a firm "No" and i was the one to feed him and then no so much "put him in his place" as that sounds harsh, and it really wasn't lol.  But it did work.  I don't know whether that is the problem your son could be having, but I hope it works out!!!  As hard as it might be, your son showing fear towards the dog I don't think is so good, but how do you tell a young child not to...conundrum....

 I think a little breathing space is needed.  Keep the dog and kid separated for a while.  I had a yellow lab, Mystic, big strong beautiful dog.  I got him from a broken home that had not included kids.  My daughter startled him when he was sleeping and had to get her face stitched up.  Between the run to the doctor and home took several hours and I had time to cool off.  My first plan was to shoot the dog, but after I thought about it, I trained the dog to live in a house that involved being disturbed while asleep. 

You spend a lot of time with this dog.  Maybe pulling back for a while and lowering her status in the family.  Let the kids feed her so she can be subordinate to them for a while.  The dog delivered a correction.  If she was being mean or nasty, stitches would have been involved, or worse.  She seems to have a very good opinion of herself.

If it doesn't improve, put her on the bus to me. Piper will help her figure out her status in the family.

I am not trying to minimize the problem.  It has to be addressed.  But may be that some time out from interaction with the dog will help, after ruling out medical causes.  If she can not or won't adapt to a house with children, mine have moved out and I am about ready for another dog.

Good luck.

Here's the link to Hemopet: http://www.hemopet.org/

If you click on the Hemolife Diagnostics link, you'll get to the page about the testing. At the bottom, there's a box labeled Sending Laboratory Samples. The forms you need are there, and there's information there about shipping international samples (along with some forms), so it might be possible! You'll at least be able to print out the thyroid testing information for your vet.

.

 I don't follow the chat on facebook, so if anyone talks about me on chat, I know nothing about it, and they can talk about me all they want. I try not to say anything behind someone's back I wouldn't be willing to say to their face.

It wouldn't be safe with your son at this point to do this, and I would not advise this at all with him, but perhaps there is some subtle little clue she gives off before she snaps. Maybe you're missing it, but on video you might be able to see it.

Is it possible to talk to anyone else who has dog from the litter to see if they are having issues. Perhaps your breeder isn't telling you something. Something about never  having any sorts of problems, just strikes me as off. Maybe there's some other breed issue that she was completely up front about and told you about, but every breed has it's issues.

Thanks everyone, I'm really sorry again.

Michelle- I am honestly not sure how to exert myself. I've been reading my head off and there is so much conflicting information. One site said to say no, another site said not to because it would make it worse, then another said its a hard decision because if I allow her to growl she is rewarded, if I correct her for it it will make it worse. Thats why I'm ordering 'Click to Calm' I've heard a bunch of great reviews on it, so I want to give it a try.

Doug- So do you think my husband and the kids should feed Lilith for a while?  Right now I've been hand feeding Lilith at the same time as Skyline to help with that food issue, usually with Aistlinn helping. But I just can't seem to get Nevyn okay with it most of the time. He really is scared of her and doesn't trust her, I can imagine thats much worse now. Doug thank you for the offer, I'm really hoping it never comes to not being able to fix this, gotta be hopeful :)

*edit* okay just realized my first question was silly. Aistlinn is 2.5yrs old and Nev is almost 5yrs old, so if I'm not helping my husband will have to lol

Kate- Thank you, I will make sure my husband brings it in with him on Wednesday :)

Jennie- Thanks, I'll try to grow a pair and give it a try sometime :P

Griffine-  "Is it possible to talk to anyone else who has dog from the litter to see if they are having issues. Perhaps your breeder isn't telling you something. Something about never  having any sorts of problems, just strikes me as off. Maybe there's some other breed issue that she was completely up front about and told you about, but every breed has it's issues."

Shes been very honest with me and very helpful since day one of getting Lilith and she is really upset by what happened. I'll know more tomorrow, but she has assured me that she has never seen any aggression and that no one of the other puppy owners has had any issues. And that neither of her dogs have ever had an aggressive phase or really bossy phase. Shes also going to write the other breeder she got her dogs from and ask for more information.

-Not sure if I'm supposed to call you Jez or your real name lol- I know that now that Dawn never meant it that way. I approached things wrong way. I should have spoken up in the right place. I will try the chat thing one day :) I remember the day you posted about the bite to I think your daughter. I feel the same way about Lilith now, I don't trust her. I'm hoping one day she will be good with my son- as in not growling at him or uncomfortable with him, but I'll never trust her again. Its stupid, but I just never thought she'd do that. I know shes a dog, but I just never thought it would happen.

Thanks again everyone, I'll keep you posted on the thyroid results then, i think its about a week to ten days for recovery from wisdom teeth? Also should I wait until Lilith is fully recovered from her spay before getting my trainer to help?

 MOD SPEAKING:

Thank you for your self moderation - it is appreciated.

I usually recommend that my clients not allow children to be on the floor at eye level with the dog, or the dog up on furniture at eye level with the kids.  Also, children should not kiss or hug dogs.  Frankly, we like it, but most of the time dogs really don't.  This is how face bites happen. Here's an interesting commentary by Dr. Yin on a book that has some of us trainers scratching our heads and hoping it's not on anyone's Christmas list for next year:

( http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/smooch-your-pooch-a-cute-childrens-book-with-unsafe-suggestions )

I really think that you need to consult a behaviorist for a really impartial evaluation of this dog's suitability for a home with children, and for a protocol to follow in the event that the eval goes well.