Feeding frenzy and annoyances questions.

Sorry your having a hard time with them. I am sure someone will come along with a better answer than I.

My dog has to sit and wait for his food. Even as a puppy. I can fill his dish, sit it down and he waits until I tell him to eat. Consistently is the key. Do it every time, all the time. Pick on method and stick to it.

Good luck.

The situation is easier to resolve than you think. Bottom line, the thing is that if you put the plate down while they are still excited then you are rewarding the behavior. "Are you excited? good, here is your food/reward for that"

Being sitting down waiting for you to put the plate down does NOT mean they are not excited still.

One weekend reserve 20 minutes to do the exercise, get the food and W-A-I-T for them to calm down before you put the plate down. Being calm does not mean that they stop jumping around, the true sign is that they stop being fixated on the food, that practically they look away while you have the food in your hand. If you time it you will see that their excitement/waiting will not last more than 10 minutes (the mind simply cant be fixated forever). They will think that you will just not put the plate down ever and they will "loose interest", by loosing interest they will automatically become calm, that's when you put down the plate slowly. If they once again start acting excited (because now their food is coming down) you just raise the plate again and repeat. I swear it does not take more than 10 minutes but the key is patience.

I started doing that with Chuck, at the beginning he was sitting down but drool was coming down like a cascade, indicating that he was still fixated on the food. I tried to make him less fixated by teaching him that if he was looking at me instead of the food then i would lower the plate. Well then he found out that looking at me "triggers" the plate to come down while he is still excited.

His level of excitement is low now, it could be lower but really is not a big deal. You can do this with your dogs to at least lower the intensity to a point where is not annoying for you and you can take it down as much as you want

yep what everyone said -- but I'm going to say it a bit differently.

YOU have to be hard enough to be, what **feels** to you as 'mean'.  It's not.  It's simply sanity and discipline.

You are turning YOUR life inside out to accommodate their rambunctious behavior.  THEY are in charge essentially.  This isn't about "dominance" this is simply about "Human's GOTTA be in charge".

Bottom line.  They do what you ASK and they get food.  If they don't?  You walk away.  NO food. 

But truly?  This can't just be about feeding time.  This has to be about **EVERYTHING**.  Go to a search engine and look up:

"Nothing in life is free" training

You'll get a ton of hits.  It's about changing how YOU (and any other resident human) relates to the dog when it/they demand something.  No you can't just come up and jump all over me to get petted or fed.  No you can't just come up and shove your head under my hand and demand to be petted.  If you want something -- you come up to me and sit NICELY.  Other than that I'm just not going to pay attention to you.  Or I'll put you in the crate or outside until you settle. 

At first this is very difficult because you're likely USED TO doing what they want.  You're used to making all sorts of concessions and changing YOUR routine to accommodate them.  You can't.

If you really get into the theory behind NILIF you will understand that dogs honestly really don't WANT to call all the shots -- they just do because they think you won't.  The first few days are difficult, mostly because there are habits YOU have to break (you won't believe until you try this how much you actually **DO** just because they demand something).

The up side is that this will actually bring you closer to the dogs -- it makes living with them SO much more pleasant and the overtone of respect really makes a huge difference.

Some things, we DO manage. We have to, for our sanity, especially in multi dog households. For instance, I feed my terrier separately from my toy dogs, because she will shove them out of the way, and steal their food if I am not hovering over them. Not being a hoverer, I just crate her. Everybody sits, and waits, and watches me, and usually does a few sit, down, stands, before feeding, and everybody knows to "be good" (that's what we call it! Really!) at the door, even ON leash. Those things are basic control, and a matter of safety. Some things, I manage. Delivery man? I put them in another room. It's just easier!

NILIF absolutely rocks, and will make your life AND theirs much better. Having guidance and structure is just as important for dogs as it is for kids.

krbshappy71

in fact its probably only enforced on crabby days.

Which winds up making you send completely the wrong message too -- the fact that you're "teachable" and looking for a real answer means you will do well!!

Trust me -- *grin* -- you aren't unusual.  Most folks who advocate NILIF or similar are simply folks that have been there done that and ... got a little smarter and more consistent.

For ME the hard part was I WANTED to give them affection when they needed it.  But ... really.... think about it.  When is it REALLY important to you.  To be loved when you *ask* for it.  Or ... to get that affection other times as well -- when you DIDN'T ask for it but just got a hug just for being you??

When you don't have to spend all your time "coping" then you wind up having time to really be proud of them and love them and develop your relationship WITH them.  It's good for everbuddy because you cease just being "convenient" and you become "MOM -- she's MY BEST".  Because you take care of them - you don't just react to them.

That may sound convoluted but it works.

To give an example -- Luna is my challenging one.  She's "daddy's girl" first off.  And we really didn't bond well from the get go - she's STRONG and I have a hard time handling her (cos I'm really NOT good on my feet at all).

Luna's the one who will rush me and jump up on me (when I'm seated) and demand attention.  But I began to see that it was always Luna I'd push off -- but with Billy and Tink I didn't need to??

Hmmm -- not really -- but in doing NILIF with her and saying "Luna come ... sit .... " and then ME reaching for HER .... wow - it made ALL the difference in her.  Mom WANTS to spend time with me.  WOW!

You might try feeding them separately.  Dogs will excite each other, getting a pack frenzy going.  Feed one at a time, in different areas till you get them behaving the way you want.

DougB

You might try feeding them separately.  Dogs will excite each other, getting a pack frenzy going.  Feed one at a time, in different areas till you get them behaving the way you want.

What he said.

Everyone gave good advice,

My dogs all get fed in the same room together, I prepare the food while they wait in the kitchen with me. Once Im done Ill look at whoever Im going to start with and ask for a sit or down when they comply I set the food in front of them saying thier name so noone misunderstands who its for. Some times ill set the bowl down and ask for a "wait" then release with thier name. When I added Grim to the schedual it was kind of chaotic because he didnt know the rules, but with my help and Kuniva had to correct him once for trying to get a nibble, Hes now in routine and knows when Im focused in on him and his turn begins.

If you want to be able to do your feedings together then maybe start with one dog and making sure they sit and control themselves while being fed then train one more and get that dog reliable, after having the two good by themselves then combine the two and practice with both. After they are in routine start with the third by themself and eventuall add to the couple so on and so forth. If you have time make thier meals into four seperate times so you have four times a day to practice the methods everyone offered!

Good luck!!!

I do allow the nudging, pet me pet me, paw at me behavior. I say no, but I don't enforce it EVERY time, in fact its probably only enforced on crabby days.

This is so simple to change with a little persistence.  If they nudge you or paw you, think of it as demanding behavior.  It's like a petulant kid pulling on your shirt when you are trying to chat with your neighbor.  So, ignore them when they do it.  No matter how bratty or persistent they get, don't even acknowledge them.  Instead, wait until they wander off or go lie down, then quietly tell them how good they are.  Also, if you are always petting, touching, cooing, etc. then your dogs think of you as an appeasing, supplicating, weenie;-)))  So, instead, save the cooing and petting as a reward for when they do a behavior that you like.  Intersperse your praise and making much of them with food treats from time to time for behaviors that you ask for.  Pretty soon, you'll notice a change in their demeanor.  You did have good instincts about leaving them alone and taking yourself out of the equation when they got rowdy, and as you can see, they quieted down.  Bring your energy level down when they get rowdy, not up (up means doing things like repeating yourself, yelling (not saying you do that), making eye contact, etc.  I call it "reading the mail" while the dogs settle down. 

We are a little calmer around here now but its going to really take some consistancy on my part, I can see that already.  The mindless reaching over to scratch the head that nudged me is done without thinking.  I am making the effort to stop and request a sit.  I've had a few dogs walk off instead, FINE.  Be that way, ha!  It is quite interesting to watch.  '

I am making the most-hyper dog, Arlo, sit before I let them outside for feeding.  Its amazing how if you can control the hyper dog the rest watch me quietly, standing there just watching instead of throwing themselves around, racing around.  So I'm basically setting the pace with him and the others are falling into place. 

krbshappy71

I am making the most-hyper dog, Arlo, sit before I let them outside for feeding.  Its amazing how if you can control the hyper dog the rest watch me quietly, standing there just watching instead of throwing themselves around, racing around.  So I'm basically setting the pace with him and the others are falling into place. 

That is because you're asserting your authority, and kudos to you for starting with the most "difficult"! As someone else here stated, the dogs were taking the initiative because you were not. The more energy they exert bossing you around, the higher up they get in the internal pecking order. Never forget that you are at the top! You are the food-giver and the affection-dispenser; you must act as the leader or one of them will. Your body language and vocal tones are your dogs' cues about how to act and what to expect. Be firm and be consistent. Hold yourself as the one who wields supreme authority over the group and they will be more than happy to treat you as such.

 Keep up the awesome work!

 I have two very "up" dogs that are selected for trialling. I do not feed my dogs together, they have physical distance. While they are not foodies, everything is an oppurtunity for a resource fight. I would never give bones to them in the same physical area, it is just going to be a vet bill. We do not leave valuable toys around or anything with value while i am away as it will be a vet bill.

 There are very few freebies as much as i might like too. Most good things are earned. Even for my girl having  a shot at OC. she earns most of what she gets.

One of the weird offsets of this policy is a fair degree of calmness. Right now i am typing this at 8 30 in the morning. Neither have had a run, but both are lying down calmly at my feet quite happy to be in my vicinity doing very little.

I am always a touch astonished that it is considered ok to feed dogs together , or to give valuable resources together. I can see how you might achieve ithis, but IMHO i would have to use some quite drive squashing techniques. You can't have it all. I want dogs that perform in an animated happy way , that love doing things with me. I am happy to bear the negative side of the equation.

poodleOwned

 I have two very "up" dogs that are selected for trialling. I do not feed my dogs together, they have physical distance. While they are not foodies, everything is an oppurtunity for a resource fight. I would never give bones to them in the same physical area, it is just going to be a vet bill. We do not leave valuable toys around or anything with value while i am away as it will be a vet bill.

 There are very few freebies as much as i might like too. Most good things are earned. Even for my girl having  a shot at OC. she earns most of what she gets.

One of the weird offsets of this policy is a fair degree of calmness. Right now i am typing this at 8 30 in the morning. Neither have had a run, but both are lying down calmly at my feet quite happy to be in my vicinity doing very little.

I am always a touch astonished that it is considered ok to feed dogs together , or to give valuable resources together. I can see how you might achieve ithis, but IMHO i would have to use some quite drive squashing techniques. You can't have it all. I want dogs that perform in an animated happy way , that love doing things with me. I am happy to bear the negative side of the equation.

 

My boys are very drivey, well Kuniva more than Proof but Proof still is drivey. They have a TON of prey drive and are used for pest removal. They have participated in fly ball, agility and do obediance very well. They all eat together and I didnt have to be harsh on them or do anything to make them less animated while we are out working or simply going threw some obediance runs.

Not saying you are wrong, since ive only worked with working dogs beside Bug maybe different types of work can be ruined from this? If you will, explain to me what you mean and have you seen this occur?