Sagan’s Baloney Detection Kit on NDT philosophy

 

Kevin Behan

Since all behavior is a function of attraction, all these experiments are likewise a function of attraction.

In other words you have nothing.  NDT is simply relies on ad hoc explanations, hand-waving away the evidence or distorting when it's convenient.Do you have anything other than your version of ''God did it''?

How does ''selective imitation'' turn into uncontrollable urge?

 Can you come up with an experimental scheme that illustrates NDT?

Can you stop the evasiveness and answer the dang questions?  Others have done it for you, so it's time to put up or shut up.

Kevin Behan

For example, in the eye contact it becomes clear that nature isn't random

 

A fine example of either your dishonest dealing.

''Nature is random'' is true.

''Nature is not random'' is true.

Of course nobody trying to communicate an idea honestly would make such a vast sweeping statement.

''It becomes clear'' is Behan's short-hand for ''I  have no evidence but trust me'' which he follows up with a fabrication and then a conclusion based on that fabrication.

 

 

corgidog

why should any grown dog be interested in the sound of a click? it's a little diminutive of them, don't you think?

 

This has to be one of the most laughable statements, among many in this ridiculous thread, that I have ever read.  

Behavior is a function of distraction. You'll noticed that the dog is always distracted by something - i.e. a person or object. All these experiments are likewise a function of distraction.  So what is being revealed by the dog's behavior is rational intelligence.

Kevin Behan

Follow the research

Behan, the research says you are so far off base, you can't even see the field from where you are standing.  That's why NDT only attracts those with the inability to tell it apart from Shinola. And why reality and NDT continue to move farther apart.

Every one of your exercises is highly derivative. Other than 5 I do all of these things with my dogs I teach these things.Your explanations are horse manure. We have demonstrated that

Not only are you personally nasty and incapable of acknowledging other's achievments, you seem to be either lazy or plagarist.. I don't know what goes on or you................ Before you slag someone else's achievements, try and do it yourself before you belittle it.

The rest that you write is demonstratable rubbish.Obviously makers went right over our head. I have to tell you, it might come as a shock, the earth is NOT flat

This just bores me to tears.. Nothing that you say blows my mind. Nothing that you do is actually orginal.

One thing I have learnt in dog training to add to the baloney kit, is that many of the folk with so called new theories  really pull up short in assesable achievements.

themilkway, is forced socialization even possible? of course. put a bunch young dogs together in a confined space. ever hear of doggie daycare?

"be the moose" is completely new and no other training program uses the construct of the "prey controls the predator" as a model. you don't fully understand what this means.

I've never read any book or article that recommends ''overstimulating'' a dog.

that's because i seriously doubt you've ever read a book ;)

playing w/ a dog in a confined space is overstimulating to them. most training programs don't make it a point to not play w/ a dog indoors. w/ ndt this is very explicit. ndt is explicit where other methods are indifferent. sleeping on the bed isn't a preference. and it can actually lead to aggressive tendencies in dogs.

clicks are meaningless and dogs are not interested in clicks. they can be conditioned. however, they do not have to be conditioned to bite something. this is innate. get a clue.

1-5, without the woo is all basic stuff that people have been doing for ages. And nothing mentioned goes against or disproves the mainstream view.

1 - 5 were exercises ndt uses. so i'm not sure how you took that as the validity of ndt rel. to other training programs.

 In order to be distracted, he first has to be attracted.

when you have nothing substantive to go on, accusing someone of plagiarism is nasty and belittling isn't it? i find you guilty of the very words you sling around, except the plagiarism part.

neither i or kbehan have called your training or explanations "horse manure". i have gone to the extreme as suggesting that your anecdotes are meaningless in relevance to this discussion. i don't know what you are referring to when you say "slag someone else's achievements"?

as far as assessable achievements go, kbehan has authored two books, trained thousands of dogs across multiple disciplines (protection, police, obedience, aggression, security) including as many handlers and owners, ran his own kennel and has over 30 years of experience in the field. there are very few trainers w/ as much experience as kbehan, and across so many different disciplines within dog training.

Every one of your exercises is highly derivative. Other than 5 I do all of these things with my dogs I teach these things.

i doubt this is true, in that the bulleted titles do not capture the implementation details. how do you do eye contact, how do you do pushing, how do you do box training? without these details i'm not sure how you could make this claim

 The only ones who have been derogatory on this thread have been you and the Milky Ways, I had no idea the subject was about great trainers I have known and for whom I have great respect. Nevertheless I simply have a different interpretation about why things work or don't work. Being the target of blunt, derisive and obfuscatory language, I'm answering with as few words as possible so that twisting of words can be kept to the minimum. I don't understand why a different theory of behavior is seen as insidiously subversive. And if my explanations are horse manure, the next time you play tug with a dog just bear in mind that the hunt-causes-the-social, not the other way around. This is why it's therapeutic. 

corgidog

themilkway, is forced socialization even possible? of course. put a bunch young dogs together in a confined space. ever hear of doggie daycare?

That's not forced socialization. That's forced closed confinement. Socialization is a process that you cannot force. Jails are not socialization institutions. *removed by moderator*

corgidog

playing w/ a dog in a confined space is overstimulating to them

You make a claim that is convenient to your argument but has no evidentiary support.

corgidog

t can actually lead to aggressive tendencies in dogs.

That's just you, making up more garbage.

corgidog

clicks are meaningless and dogs are not interested in clicks.

Dog are capable of learning, but since you dont believe they can thihk, that fact will never get through to you.

corgidog

1 - 5 were exercises ndt uses. so i'm not sure how you took that as the validity of ndt rel. to other training programs.

Same as all others, and they in no way invalidate other mainstream methods.

Actually hunger causes the hunt

corgidog

as far as assessable achievements go, kbehan has authored two books, trained thousands of dogs across multiple disciplines (protection, police, obedience, aggression, security) including as many handlers and owners, ran his own kennel and has over 30 years of experience in the field. there are very few trainers w/ as much experience as kbehan, and across so many different disciplines within dog training.

Non of which makes him competent to come up with valid theories, and by what he's put forth he is highly incompetent when it comes to theorizing. As I said 20 odd pages ago. Being a good mechanic doesn't qualify you to theorize about physics.

You want to be careful saying something definitive as opposed to the usual declarative. Cats get hungry and I don't see too many cat owners playing tug. And dogs chase cars because they're hungry?

Let's take notice that Behan still has failed to come up with an experiment. Still hasn't addressed how he turned selective imitation into uncontrollable urge And most recently he has not addressed his misrepresentation of 'nature is random" How quick he is to question others, and yet how fearful he is to put himself under the same scrutiny.