Youngster jumping and grabbing at your hand during a walk-arrgh!

I think that retrievers do tend to be mouthy, but.....this doesn't sound good.  And while I like to give large breeds a chance to grow, two years seems a bit long for a retreiver.  And 7 weeks seems far too young.  I know that Anne and I disagree on ideal timing, but I feel that a GOOD breeder should be doing all the socialization things that a new home would do anyway.  I always did.

Sounds like maybe your daughter bought into the "it's the breed" thing but everytime she allows this, it reinforces that it's ok to do to the pup.  Unless she is fully on board with training out this behavior, it isn't going to happen.

Wish I had some ideas other than ignore, take away the temptation, abort the walk, teaching leave it and settle.......some days I wish I had the trainer training!

I've been working on "settle" around the house because he paces and is mischievous about finding things to grab and run off with. I can understand a lot of puppy behavior - I have two bird dogs that actually have a higher energy level that this fellow. I take him to my kennel club and make him chase a ball and if the agility equip. is set up, we do some rudimentary agility work on leash. He is a "no" at a dog park because he isn't neutered. I just can't deal with this mouthiness during the walks. It hurts and he's popped blood vessels in my daughter's hands and given her bruises on her arms and calves. I don't see it stopping when he's an adult either. I've always believed in "if you can't train it, manage it" and he's going to end up with a muzzle before long. Any kind of correction just escalates it and you can't ignore it. I'm going to try a head collar (the kind that hooks in the back) and see if this can, at least, make it difficult for him to grab your hands and arms. She is at her wits end and wants to work with me for a solution. It's terrible.

Oh good.  I'm glad that she's on the same page.

I wish that I could offer some good solid advice......

diane303

Everything that she has tried hasn't really worked.

 

Don't know what's been tried but I teach a default behavior (sit's the easiest) and ask for it BEFORE the dog gets ramped up, I ask for a sit and treat or praise calmly.  Start in the house, move to the back yard and then the front yard.  Always on lead and with no distractions.  I've always taught my dogs to sit when I stop walking.  I don't allow anything but a heel walk until this type of behavior is under control.  When I proceed to a regular walk and the dog even looks like it might be thinking of getting excited, I ask for a sit, treat/calm praise and change directions.  The frustration the owner feels is passed to the dog and this often ramps them up even further.  Calm, calm, calm vibes must be passed down to the dog through the leash.  This can take many weeks if the dog has been doing it successfully for many months.  I don't think it's a retriever thing nor do I think it's always a case of a dog leaving the litter too soon.  Dogs use their mouths, among other things, to get our attention and it usually works but not in the way we desire. :(    Persistence and consistency is the key with extinguishing this behavior. 

Not sure if either of you is into clicker training but it's very helpful with this type of behavior because you can quickly capture the wanted behavior.  Here's a link to a very good site if you're interested.  http://www.dogmantics.com/Dogmantics/Home.html

 spray ICK spray or bitter apple spray on your hands before a walk.

Also, this is more complex behavior to tackle than just mouthiness on a walk. It sounds like there's no impulse control and that the dog needs an outlet for frustration. So, I would start with training impulse control using commands such as wait and leave it. The owners should practice NILIF constantly for a while and work out some of the frustration by doing free shaping with a clicker.

Will he not carry a ball, stick, or stuffy in his mouth? I'd shove a toy in his mouth, honestly. That is how I have managed Bean, all her life, and at 2 1/2, she doesn't mouth. She runs and grabs a toy for excited greetings.

jennie_c_d

Will he not carry a ball, stick, or stuffy in his mouth? I'd shove a toy in his mouth, honestly. That is how I have managed Bean, all her life, and at 2 1/2, she doesn't mouth. She runs and grabs a toy for excited greetings.

This is how we managed Cher until she realized that she wasn't supposed to chew her way up my arm.  Now, when she gets too amped up, she grabs a toy instead of someone.

BEVOLASVEGAS

jennie_c_d

Will he not carry a ball, stick, or stuffy in his mouth? I'd shove a toy in his mouth, honestly. That is how I have managed Bean, all her life, and at 2 1/2, she doesn't mouth. She runs and grabs a toy for excited greetings.

This is how we managed Cher until she realized that she wasn't supposed to chew her way up my arm.  Now, when she gets too amped up, she grabs a toy instead of someone.

 

 

We're STILL working on this with Jackson. It is getting better though.

I agree that NILIF is the way to go here. She has been working on impulse control and, actually, he's pretty good at waiting at door ways, waiting be let out of the car, sitting for his food....this kind of thing. The hand grabbing is driving me nuts. The other night I was just too tired to engage when he jumped at me so I just stopped, crossed my arms high and tight (mostly to protect my hands) and looked up at the sky. He finally stopped grabbing at me and we continued our walk. I'm convinced that any engagement just encourages him to try again. This morning, I inadvertently stumbled across something that might work. We walked and he peed and pooped. I picked up his poop in a typical poop bag that is on a roller. His poop was a bit squishy - like soft serve - this morning. As we were ending our walk, he started to jump at me and tried to grab my hands. I stopped, crossed my arms and looked up at the sky. He accidently caught the poop bag with squishy poop in his teeth and the bag tore open (luckily not on me). He looked up at me like "yuck - what happened?" and stopped...and we continued walking quickly to put what was left of the poop bag in the trash. I'm thinking that if you soak a soft sponge with vinegar, lemon juice and put it into one of these thin poop bags and carry it with you on a walk, you could deter him when he goes to grab your hand and get the bag with the sponge and vinegar instead. I just hate to rely on having him carry things all the time. If she is planning to do any kind of performance activity in the future (she's thinking of trying agility), she's going to have to deal with that. I really don't care if it's a "retriever thing", He has to learn not to touch body parts with those teeth.

Sounds like withdrawing all interaction will work just as well. Lily can get really rude and pushy and if anyone tries to tell no or off, etc. Or physically brush her off she just tries harder. But turning away from her, not talking at all and not looking at her stops her bratty behavior instantly.

Honestly, I will keep trying Non-interaction first, but I just took him for a walk; he was fine first and he was a solid jerk. I did my stop, cross my arms and look up routine, he just kept going and getting worse until he was jumping and PULLING at me. Balls out bound and determined to make me react. I ended up scruffing him with both hands until he stopped. After that I insisted that he heel a bunch of patterns and figure 8s (yes - he is capable of doing this) before we went inside and now he is being ignored. Now he is laying under my desk looking completely rejected. You want to know the truth? I'm not liking this dog much right now. He needs to be neutered.

diane303

He needs to be neutered.

 

How will this help the mouthing and jumping up behavior?

diane303

Balls out bound and determined to make me react. I ended up scruffing him with both hands

 

....and giving him what he wanted. Why punish the dog, when you can prevent the behavior? Give him a way out. Give him a way to get POSITIVE attention.

OK - when the dog is jumping up and biting you hands and grabbing your arms - what positive attention should I give him? Wouldn't you be teaching him that this behavior will get him attention in the first place? I'm not happy about scruffing him but I'm not going to give positive attention to a really horrible behavior. I believe that the piles of testosterone that is racing through him right now fuels a lot of this behavior. Tonight, we had a decent walk. I consider that a break through and rewarded him for the good behavior. Was it because he was scruffed or did he just get bored with the game. Only Calvin knows. This is making me appreciate my two bird dogs big time.