Lost - Have no idea what to do now! Peeing dog

Here is a much better picture. hope it shows up

I took down the pics because they don't help with the question, and it seems to be adding fuel to some people.

PS:You are right, it is always the owners fault, but that doesn't tell me what I'm doing wrong with this dog and why we did so good with the other. That is why I posted the pics so you could see we must have done good with the first dog, but now we can't seem to get the basics right. Which is why I posted and tried to be sincern as to what we are thinking, doing, and feeling.

ann404

hubby really wanted a longhaired. Our old dog was longhaired and the best dog ever. So he is slowing giving up.

Mistake number one: Hoping that your new dog will be as "perfect" as the one you are replacing him with. This is not realistic and is unfair for the new doggie, specially  if the new doggie is still a puppy who is learning the rules of the house.

Excitement is part of the problem indeed and there is 2 things that need to be done. Please note: your can not do one without the other. One of them is ignoring her while on an excited state of mind, this way you are not feedingthe excitement that leads to urination, the other one is exercise, a tired dog is a good dog and he wont be as likely to be walking around to see who will play with him.

Dont compare the old dog with the new one because the new one will always loose and you cut his chances to half when it comes on deciding to keeping him or not.

Tell your husband to not act like a 4 year old that is having a temper tantrum, to man up and accept what he has because the puppy has a lot of potential and with training and dedication can be as good (if not better) than your old dog.

I'm confused -- I looked back in your other posts but I don't find anything about THIS dog but I found where you had a pup back in January of 2009 (a golden mix?) that was having problems with your daughter.

What happened to that dog?  Is this a second dog or do you no longer have the golden?

Do you perhaps have another login with details about this dog?

A couple of things come to mind with this particular dog --

the very first thing would be to have a vet culture the urine (not just a strip test) to see if there is an infection that may be making this pup drink ultra huge amounts of water so it can't hold its urine.

It's not uncommon for dogs to come straight from the shelter with a urinary tract infection and it can make house-training a nightmare. 

However, at the same time it sounds VERY like submissive urination -- and for that you have to back WAY off and keep the pup very calm.  She/He'll pee when they get excited -- all the behaviors you describe are typically a very submissive dog with urine leaking when they are excited.

Keeping the dog outside is NO solution -- in fact, it will only make it worse, because the  dog isn't learning to NOT be over-excited in the house and when he does get some interaction it likely puts him over the moon because he's starved for interaction with humans.  A collie, in particular, NEEDS humans -- this is a herding dog and they are OFTEN quite excitable (particularly if they have children to chase and things to "herd" -- my sheltie mix would herd pine needles skittering across the floor if he didn't have any other outlet).

It also sounds like you have another child maybe around a year old?  That's also going to ramp up a herder in a big way -- little people, for them, are something to "herd" and watch out for -- and that often creates more havoc and problems.  A herder -- and a puppy at that -- would NOT have been in even the top 25 suggestions I would have made for a dog for you.  A puppy and a baby (or other small children) often just don't mix well -- particularly if the Mom busy taking care of small children doesn't have time to devote to an active excited puppy.

It's got to be the vet first .. and then some decisions about how to make the training mix.  Just having your husband go to puppy training once a week but making no changes at home just isn't going to work.

Pups often jump -- so you keep them leashed inside so you can have some control.  But the children also have to have some idea of how to train the dog to encourage the dog to "sit" calmly so something can be accomplished.

Input please? 

The lab was a fostered with the hopes of keeping, and yes we had problems with him except he was looked at by a trainer and we were told he had agressive issues. He went on to a rescue just for labs. He was never in danger, or we would still have him!

PS: we didn't know until we brought him back that he had been returned twice before!!

calliecritturs

 

However, at the same time it sounds VERY like submissive urination -- and for that you have to back WAY off and keep the pup very calm.  She/He'll pee when they get excited -- all the behaviors you describe are typically a very submissive dog with urine leaking when they are excited.

 

YES submissive urination, that is it! She gets down on the ground like she is scared you're gonna hit her. No we don't. I have taken her to the vet and he gave us meds (I posted about that too, so I'm not sure why you can't find my post) . Anyway that didn't help. Please don't take my upset mood to mean I have a *removed by moderator* for a husband, he wants the dog, he wants any dog, but we have two kids and they need a clean house free of pee. Also she does have a good side, she made friends with a stray cat, that she lets eat from her bowl. We can handle the rest but our vet said this may not change!! He was no help!

In honesty you'll need to start with a vet visit -- as much quantity of urine as you're talking about -- you'll need to find out if there is a physical problem first.  But then it's got to be a consistent, moment by moment solution -- making sure she gets EXCERCISE (not just being outside -- someone needs to throw a ball or a Kong for her for an extended period more than ocne a day, walk her a lot, so that what efforts you make to settle her down CAN be successful.

Even a 5 year old needs to be "in" on training.  So that they can learn to say with some authority "Pup, Sit!" and know what ramps the dog up versus helping the pup settle down.  Having a child go along to obedience classes to learn HOW to walk the dog on leash -- those things help a TON with dealing with the dog at home.

Until you can get a real hang on dealing with the submissive urination you might want to put some bitches britches on her with continence pads -- take them off when you let the dog "out" and take the dog for a walk -- but to keep the problem contained so the dog can be INSIDE -- it might help.  The dog can't learn to settle down unless it is around the family and learns to take that kind of instruction.

What about a dog sitter or doggy day care she could stay at a couple times a week while you’re away?  In my opinion this option would be even better then finding a trainer, and a good alternative to leaving her outside by herself.   This would be especially beneficial to her if the sitter has other dogs to help socialize her.  I have found that with submissive dogs that having other dogs around really helps them come out of their shell and pick up on behaviors that are tricky to learn on their own.  It sounds like your working on the right track to finding solutions and even coming here is a good place to start. I know some replies may sound a little harsh but we are truly here to help give advice on what is best for you and your pup. I hope it all works out for the best, good luck!

My Harry is a submissive/excitement urinator.  He is 2.5 years old.  While many dogs grow out of this, he has not (some don't).  We simply have to manage the situation to prevent the urination.  The major way we do this is to ignore him until he calms down when he's overexcited.  He only does it to us (myself & BF) when he gets ramped up when we get home from work.  Every single day, when I come home, I go to the back door and let him out to pee.  I do not look at him or speak to him until he is outside and has peed.  If he's still too excited after that, then I use his favorite thing in the world - a tennis ball - to redirect his attention.  We just start playing fetch, and he gets so into that that he forgets about being sooo super excited to see me which would result in piddling (as well as giving him an immediate outlet for the energy he has pent up during the day).

I also agree that exercise is very important (in so many ways, but also to help curb this behavior), because an energetic dog will get overly excited much more easily than one who is tired.

The other issue is guests/people he doesn't know.  If we have a guest over the house, I do the above steps, plus I give them instructions on how to handle him.  I tell them that if they want to pet him, first, he must be calm or they are to ignore him.  Even then, if he's sitting nicely and calmly, I tell them to approach him to his side, squat down, and not hover over him (this triggers submissive urination).  I give these instructions to vets & vet techs as well, as he gets nervous at the vet's office (I tell them straight up that he's a submissive urinator). 

All of these techniques have worked very well for us.  I can't remember the last time he displayed this behavior, actually, but I know it could happen again if we fail to properly manage it.

A google search of techniques to handle this can be very helpful.

Yep this is what the vet told us, that she may never grow out of it. And yes that would be hard for us to deal with. Not something I've even heard of before. She does this with guest too. Peed on a contractors foot that wouldn't listen to me (I really didn't mind that:)

Now after reading some of the post here I decided to try something with her. I brought her inside with just me and the baby (15months). I was surpised to see that for the most part she left the baby alone. Please note I was on my feet the whole time and never left my toddlers side for safety. Brady lick the baby, and even gentle took food from her hand. At the same time, brady is going crazy with me, biting, some jumping, and yes peeing (4 times in under an hour). Why????????

 Oh Brady doesn't want to fetch, and I've tried oh so many times to teach her. My baby kept bring the ball to me (just throwing it 3 feet) but the dog would not have anything to do with it.

Why?  it has to do with muscle development partly -- this isn't conscious.  Part of it is inate -- a dog submissive thing.  But MUCH of it is physical.  Like I said -- put something on her.  You've got a little one -- take a little kid's pair of underwear, put a lite days pad in it and put it on her (if it's a boy's pantie stick her tail thru the placket - if it's a girlls cut a tail hole),  keep the pad WAY high just under the tail (in fact fold the pad down an inch and seat it right up under the tail so it will actually CATCH the drips.)

It will help you cope while you train.

ann404

. Now to make matters just a little worst, we have come to realize that she is going to be a shorthaired collie, and hubby really wanted a longhaired. Our old dog was longhaired and the best dog ever. So he is slowing giving up. I don't want to, and I know if we could see any hope here he wouldn't either.    

 I have nothing constructive to add, except this: So what if shes short haired? Also, this is why breed research is vital. She is a herding breed.

I meant why was she acting different to the baby then to me. When hubby got home we let her in again and this time she was very excited to see him, and our oldest was also home. still she was basically ok (yes she peed), but when our oldest started to get hyper the dog couldn't take it. She got more and more hyper too. So we decided to end it on a good note and let the dog back outside.

  So do you think coming in a few times a day fro 30mins would get her more social? Or would it make her feel anixous knowing we are going to put her back out shortly????? I will try the underware idea, but I don't think she'll go for that. Still I will try it tomorrow, as you never know.

Also to the person who asked why it mattered she was shorthaired. Really it doesn't. We wanted a dog that reminded us of our old dog. Who was one big furrball. After almost 3 years we just can't seem to let go (our problem sure). I've had other dogs over my lifetime, but none made such an impact on me (us) as she did.

ann404

  So do you think coming in a few times a day fro 30mins would get her more social?

30 minutes a day for interaction? What about exercise? Again, she is a herding breed.

ann404

but when our oldest started to get hyper the dog couldn't take it.

If you know that the dog being excited is causing the peeing, why are you letting the older child to be hyper with the dog?

ann404

We wanted a dog that reminded us of our old dog.

You cannot compare your old dog to the new one. You're setting this dog up to fail because she'll never be the other dog.

You can't successfully train this dog to be a happy member of your family if she stays outside most of the time.  That's just a fact.  You wouldn't raise your children isolated for much of their waking hours with no interaction or opportunity to learn.  Thirty minutes a few times a day is better than nothing but far short of what's required.

You should seriously consider finding a good behaviorist to come in and show you what you need to do or rehome the dog.  Dogs require time and commitment.  It seems that you want to have a dog just like the dog you lost.  That's understandable but unrealistic. Dogs are as individual as people.