Wales Bans Shock Collars

So glad I don't live in Wales!

Thanks for the link Anne!

What bothers me about countries that blanket ban stuff like e-collars are also the blanket restrictions on breeds, forcing them to be muzzled, wear shorter leashes, sometimes requiring spay/neuter, or not allowing dogs of certain breeds to be re-homed.  So it's hard for me to really believe that the animal welfare groups truly have the best interests of the dog at heart when my dogs would have to be muzzled, kept on short leashes, and possibly euthanized if anything happened to me just because of their pedigree, never mind the scariest bite incidents for me both involved a lab and lab mix.  But I guess it makes sense that places with strict BSL would also be able to blanket ban training tools/methods.

If people would behave responsibly with tools designed to punish, laws wouldn't need to be passed.  I have seen e collars used correctly and incorrectly.  I think of it as similar to the laws we pass that make it clear many of us lack basic common sense. Most dog owners have no experience with training.  Then you throw emotion into the mix and you can most definitely have dogs being mistreated to the point of cruelty. 

The proper use of an e collar is not something I am universally opposed to. Same for a prong or any other tool that can potentially be used to punish. Any tool can be misued.  The worst instances of abuse that I have witnessed were with shock collars but that's not relevant, except to me. 

 A big part of me dislikes government trying to be a moral compass.  That always seems to be a bandaid on the problem because you can't make people do the right thing no matter how many laws you pass.  Sigh

JackieG

 A big part of me dislikes government trying to be a moral compass.  That always seems to be a bandaid on the problem because you can't make people do the right thing no matter how many laws you pass.  Sigh

Exactly.  The worst injury I've seen from a dog training tool was an embedded flat collar.

Here's what I find "perplexing" about it all - if a dog is being abused using any tool, prosecute the person under animal cruelty charges.  Period.  If it doesn't qualify under animal cruelty, then why are the tools banned in the first place?

miranadobe

So glad I don't live in Wales!

 

Do you live in California?

http://www.banshockcollars.ca/

I must say that while I normally don't have a problem with the responsible use of most tools, this is one that has irritated me for a long time.  If you are just "tickling" or "tapping" why do you need electricity to do so?  It's not a "stim", it's a shock.  The embedded collar is from neglect, but you shock your dog out of love???  Sorry, not buying it, and if I ever get the chance to vote on these things, I'll do the same thing they did in Wales.

 

that website (www.banshockcollars.ca) is Canadian, from BC, so it looks like they are jumping on the bandwagon!

I agree though, any form of training tool could be misused and seen as "abuse". 

miranadobe

if a dog is being abused using any tool, prosecute the person under animal cruelty charges.

Agreed, i dont see goverments banning kitchen knives and we know what they can be used for. Maybe they could meet in the middle and only experienced people could have a "license" to use them

Here is a video of an ecollar being used on a dog, the collar is tested first on a human and then on a metal bucket to show how "bad" it is:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/dog-whisperer/3738/Videos#tab-Videos/06572_00

Those who ban the ecollars most likely have never used one before or tested it on themselves to have an accurate idea of how it works. They just use their imagination to develop an opinion

spiritdogs

miranadobe

So glad I don't live in Wales!

 

Do you live in California?

  Nope, and I've said repeatedly that despite the beautiful environment, they make some CRAAAZZZY laws out there that I have no interest in supporting, personally.  Let alone living by.  Extremists and fanatics for anything other than freedom are just not my cup of tea.  And as noted above, that link is for Canada, anyway.  What's worse, is the studies they list - only two actually refer to direct study of ecollars, the others are about punishment methods, with only one mentioning "“Aversive tools such as electric stimulation (shock), prong, or training (choke) collars that require pulling and jerking to work, hitting and scolding".  One more talks about fences.  The two remaining studies - neither of them indicate the type or level of shock applied (you know we've argued about horse fencing versus ecollars enough to be firmly established they are NOT the same) - wait, the second one does indicate a level, - it says "HIGH LEVELS OF SHOCK".  Unimpressed.

Anne, I realize you're a member of an Anti-shock collar coalition, and therefore this is something you actively campaign to support (banning the use of the collars).  That's your choice.  My choice is to fight to educate people on their use and validity in training.

Personally I'm thrilled.  The more places without those things the better.

As for the comparison to kitchen knives -- not warranted.  Kitchen knives have a real use to cut up things.  There is only one use for a shock collar: causing your dog pain in the name of training.

crysania

As for the comparison to kitchen knives -- not warranted.  Kitchen knives have a real use to cut up things.  There is only one use for a shock collar: causing your dog pain in the name of training.

Very warranted. Ecollars have real use on training dogs but this is not a comparission thread so it does not matter what we use to compare it with nor we should spend pages relating one to another. If you watch the video i posted you can see that it does not cause pain. Now, if you have used one before then you might want to share your experience

crysania

There is only one use for a shock collar: causing your dog pain in the name of training.

  Inflammatory statements that aren't based on facts don't educate.  The above is simply not true.  In fact, it's insulting to those of us who use them.

And, since you have expressed your support for banning them, I will ask you directly - why?  If you truly believe the dog is being abused with anything, why wouldn't the person be subjected to prosecution under animal cruelty laws?  Why? People want to address the issue of cruelty to animals - then actually work on prosecuting people, not banning tools or breeds. 

 Why would anyone want to risk what this veterinarian describes: http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/Adobe/rufus.pdf

Article by one of the country's pre-eminent behaviorists: Overall, K.L., 2007. Why electric shock is not behavior modification. J. Vet. Behav.: Clin. Appl. Res. 2, 1-4.

http://www.itchmo.com/dog-injured-by-anti-bark-collar-at-kennel-2157

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/Combined_Punishment_Statements.pdf

Even this animal hospital, despite the fact that they think a shock collar is okay in some very limited circumstances, suggests that no one use them on dogs except under the guidance of a *qualified* animal behaviorist (which means Grad Degree or DVM): http://www.bondanimalhospital.com/collars.shtml

One dog trainer posted these photos of a dog with shock collar damage on his FB page: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=141862&id=59639020615&ref=nf

You can never tell me that there is zero chance of a mistake, a malfunction, or misuse by the general public.  In my opinion, these devices, if they are to be sold at all, should require a prescription, just as you would need to give a dog a dangerous-if-misused drug.

 

More info for those interested:

http://www.dogexpert.com/Background%20%20Qualifications/Electronic%20fences.pdf

http://www.dogsportmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/The%20Problem%20With%20Shock.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1338539/pdf/jeabehav00153-0133.pdf

http://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&assetId=1232713013325&mode=prd