Help, Bella attacked Amber

 That's good -maybe he will see the light after all.

Its a great start......he needs to see that Bella has heart also..... so maybe BF is noticing.  Sure hope so!

 another update, the other night ( last night I think). I went and got Zoey from outside. and my Bf said ' here comes Bella' and my thought was 'oh crap where's amber!?!' and I told him that. He said he let them together the other night & they were fine. So here comes bella in the door, right past Amber, and NOTHING. hmm..she ran into the kithen all wiggly butt, and was fine. then she was put in her crate for dinner. But wow, that was like a whole 3 minutes of being around one another with nothing happening. Maybe they can eventually be around one another ( SUPERVISED) one day again! Yay Bella!

I also noticed that Amber is getting back into her playfulness - probably finally feels better after all those stitches. She was actually trying to play with Zoey the other day ( she's never done that, she's always done the 'back off stupid puppy' vocalizations). So I think thats good.

( after going to Zoey's puppy class with me last night, he really started talking about  how he should've done that with Bella, and actually asked 'is there big dog classes?' I said yes, but if theres a chance she's DA then she'll have to have private lessons until the trainer is confident that she is well behaved i.e. focused on us, before she moves onto any group activities. so yay, some progress there!)

Wow - that IS a good update!  In lots of ways!

They must have seemed "fine" before the attack, and then suddenly there's a fight out of the blue.  I would be concerned that they would seem completely "fine" for ages, and then one day my guard would be down and there would be another episode.  Don't let up the supervision.... stakes are too high

I'm glad your bf took Bella for a walk the other night.  And that he is showing some interest in dealing with her aggression.  I agree with Chuffy that you shouldn't let your guard down with the dogs just because Bella didn't show any aggression the other day when they passed each other.  Continue to keep them separated using rotation.  Good luck and I hope your bf agrees to call the trainer. 

I'm glad for you too...AND for Bella!!  

A agree that I would keep supervision every second..just because you never know. Heck.. when my kids were babies...my neighbor next door had two sons that were only a year apart in age....she came home a few times to broken dishes..or things messed up because they got into fights.  They are good guys..... very nice family ( she was my nicest friend in the whole world...and has since then passed on ) but they would just get into knock down fights because they sometime did not control themselves.....difference being that they kind of got it together before they killed one another.....and you just can't be too sure about the dogs.

I'm glad that your BF is seeing things differently and understands better. I can reiterate strongly enough about not letting your guard down. Every time our dogs had a fight and then were together again, they did beautifully for awhile. Sometimes it was weeks, sometimes it was months with no incidents, but there was always another fight. Just recently DH had them out back together. Buffy was eating poop as DH was trying to clean it up and he scolded her. A simple "Buffy! No!" and Sassy went after her. They both ended up with a few scrapes but if I had been there alone, it would've been far worse. I just don't want you to find yourself in that kind of situation.

akyramoto82

 another update, the other night ( last night I think). I went and got Zoey from outside. and my Bf said ' here comes Bella' and my thought was 'oh crap where's amber!?!' and I told him that. He said he let them together the other night & they were fine. So here comes bella in the door, right past Amber, and NOTHING. hmm..she ran into the kithen all wiggly butt, and was fine. then she was put in her crate for dinner. But wow, that was like a whole 3 minutes of being around one another with nothing happening. Maybe they can eventually be around one another ( SUPERVISED) one day again! Yay Bella!

I also noticed that Amber is getting back into her playfulness - probably finally feels better after all those stitches. She was actually trying to play with Zoey the other day ( she's never done that, she's always done the 'back off stupid puppy' vocalizations). So I think thats good.

( after going to Zoey's puppy class with me last night, he really started talking about  how he should've done that with Bella, and actually asked 'is there big dog classes?' I said yes, but if theres a chance she's DA then she'll have to have private lessons until the trainer is confident that she is well behaved i.e. focused on us, before she moves onto any group activities. so yay, some progress there!)

Sorry, but I don't share your optimism.  Dogs that put holes in other dogs to the extent that they need "all those stitches" are not dogs that should be interacting with one another IMO.  The stakes are high and dogs can go a long time without an incident, which only adds to your false sense of security.  Apparently, your BF "gets" that Bella needs attention, but is not so convinced that they need separation.  I hate to rain on the parade, but I would keep them apart.  But, that's just my opinion and what I would tell any of my clients who presented a similar scenario.  While it's true that they might never have another incident, it's also true that another incident, should they have one, could lead to the death of the smaller dog and even injury to one of you trying to break it up.

Separation creates enemies, not packs. Don't let people out there convince you that you can't have it as it was before. What you create in your mind is what will happen. If you think they will never get along as before then they won't.

Beautifully explained here:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/dog-whisperer#tab-Videos/02339_01

I'm not saying that you won't have to work for it and be careful for a while but if you give up even before you try then don't even bother. There are a lot of downers in this world that won't like you to succeed on something they could not. Stay away from them because they will just hold you back.

I'm glad you didn't listen to those who said to rehome a dog, it's good that accidentally they got together to see that you don't have to separate them forever either. Imagine what would happen if this accident didn't happen? You would be rotating your dogs forever without ever finding out they could actually be together.

Keep it up, you are in the right track.

Separation creates enemies, not packs.

 The pack and dominance theories have been disproved, so why should our OP care about that?

http://www.nonlineardogs.com/100MostSillyPart1-2.html

http://k9domain.org/alpha_theory.aspx

Don't let the the *refers to removed content* convince you that you can't have it as it was before. What you create in your mind is what will happen. If you think they will never get along as before then they won't.

Don't let the *refers to removed content* convince you that you can always make everything right with the world.  That would be like saying you can convert a pro-lifer to be an abortionist just because you will it.  Even if you can make things a bit better, why take a chance with a dog that has a size advantage and has already done severe physical damage (not to mention the damage to the smaller dog's mental state) that nothing will ever happen again.  You simply can't *guarantee* that with a dog that has not exhibited good bite inhibition.

There are a lot of downers in this world that won't like you to succeed on something they could not. Stay away from them because they will just hold you back.

There are also a lot of uppers in the world who will give bad advice because they have not adequately studied the subject they are expounding upon.  *personal attack*

I'm glad you didn't listen to those who said to rehome a dog, it's good that accidentally they got together to see that you don't have to separate them forever either. Imagine what would happen if this accident didn't happen? You would be rotating your dogs forever without ever finding out they could actually be together.

There really is no guarantee, either, that Bella won't just get along with Amber forever.  BUT, one, or even twenty, good encounters cannot guarantee that this type of incident won't happen again either.  And, this has the added problem of providing the owners with a sense of security that may well get their dogs in trouble.  Any behavior expert generally recommends ruling out any physical causes for aggression (thyroid, pain, etc.), then they do an assessment of what triggers the aggression, then they recommend a treatment plan.  But, management is often a part of such plans, and sometimes becomes a permanent solution.  In any event, blithely recommending that people put two dogs together when one has put (how many?) stitches in the other, is irresponsible, *removed by moderator*.  Everyone should really be approaching this with caution (since these are not our dogs and we have not personally assessed them).

Moderator Speaking:

I warned once that I wasn't going to allow personal attacks in this thread.  Suspensions will be the next option if posters cannot control themselves, and this goes for everyone.  Send me (or any other Mod/Admin) a PM if you're unsure what this means.

Thanks for your cooperation.

spiritdogs

why take a chance with a dog that has a size advantage and has already done severe physical damage (not to mention the damage to the smaller dog's mental state) that nothing will ever happen again.  You simply can't *guarantee* that with a dog that has not exhibited good bite inhibition.

 Unless you are exceptionally savvy about dog/dog behavior and how to modify aggressive behaviors successfully, I really agree that it's completely unwise to think one accidental encounter is encouraging that these two dogs can coexist happily.  It's not like we've heard reference to a professional behaviorist being involved on-site, have we? 

spiritdogs

Any behavior expert generally recommends ruling out any physical causes for aggression (thyroid, pain, etc.), then they do an assessment of what triggers the aggression, then they recommend a treatment plan.  But, management is often a part of such plans, and sometimes becomes a permanent solution.  In any event, blithely recommending that people put two dogs together when one has put (how many?) stitches in the other, is irresponsible.  Everyone should really be approaching this with caution (since these are not our dogs and we have not personally assessed them).

Agreed/ +1/ditto/

spiritdogs

  In any event, blithely recommending that people put two dogs together when one has put (how many?) stitches in the other, is irresponsible, *removed by moderator*.  Everyone should really be approaching this with caution (since these are not our dogs and we have not personally assessed them).

Absolutely right.   

There are dozens of ways to put 2 dogs together, it seems that some people only think (or know) about the dangerous ones. You can either "blithely" put them together or use professional help just like i have been suggesting since my first post on page one.

espencer

There are dozens of ways to put 2 dogs together, it seems that some people only think (or know) about the dangerous ones. You can either "blithely" put them together or use professional help just like i have been suggesting since my first post on page one.

If you believe that the correct option is professional help, then it would seem that you should actually be in agreement with me and Paige (both professionals) that this is the usual protocol, and that we should be advising caution until the dogs have actually been seen directly by a professional:

spiritdogs:

why take a chance with a dog that has a size advantage and has already done severe physical damage (not to mention the damage to the smaller dog's mental state) that nothing will ever happen again.  You simply can't *guarantee* that with a dog that has not exhibited good bite inhibition.

 Unless you are exceptionally savvy about dog/dog behavior and how to modify aggressive behaviors successfully, I really agree that it's completely unwise to think one accidental encounter is encouraging that these two dogs can coexist happily.  It's not like we've heard reference to a professional behaviorist being involved on-site, have we? 

spiritdogs:

Any behavior expert generally recommends ruling out any physical causes for aggression (thyroid, pain, etc.), then they do an assessment of what triggers the aggression, then they recommend a treatment plan.  But, management is often a part of such plans, and sometimes becomes a permanent solution.  In any event, blithely recommending that people put two dogs together when one has put (how many?) stitches in the other, is irresponsible.  Everyone should really be approaching this with caution (since these are not our dogs and we have not personally assessed them).

Agreed/ +1/ditto/