Becoming part of the pack?

You just show them the rules of the house, a default behavior like sit and with obedience and social bonding we have

You set the rules and the dogs follow the rules. Alpha - pack.

In a wolf pack, and they do form packs, there is a male alpha and a female alpha. They are the ones that breed. A female wolf wanting to take the female alpha position can be excommunicated from the pack because the female alpha did not hesitate in returning the challenge. If she had hesitated, the other wolves might have stayed out of it. As it was, the rest of the pack helped to chase away the renegade female. This is as plain as day in the documentary showing the reintroduction of the grey wolf to Yellowstone Natl. Park. Coyotes sometimes form packs but not often. But, since everybody is so happy with the idea that dogs descended directly from grey wolves based upon 11 year old preliminary gene-counting, we'll go with that. The alpha wolf gets first bite and choice. The other wolves don't have to wait for permission to eat. Only humans do that. But if the alpha wolf wants another piece, he gets it because he is the big bad hombre and anyone who wants to challenge him will either pay the price or usurp his position. That's not from a textbook, that's watching the wolves do their thing.

If a person practices NILIF, they are being alpha, even moreso than an alpha wolf, who does not stop the others from eating until they are in a perfect sit. I'm not sure which studies were "artificial." I have seen a video documentary and I have read the field notes and interview of a coyote researcher that followed lone coyotes and coyote packs through the Adirondacks.

To be un-alpha would be to just throw the food out and not expect any obedience to the human. A human has to always be able to solve the problems in order for the dog to subordinate to him or her. Otherwise, the dog will do whatever he has to do to secure his survival. It's instinct.
 
Domestic dogs gone feral do form packs. When the Houston SPCA went to a property with over 70 dogs on it, the dogs had gone feral and organized into packs, with in-fighting. That's on one of their episodes on the Animal Planet.
 

Ron, I would have to agree with you. I don't buy into the "dogs don't form packs" theory or the "packs are not important to dogs" statement.

Dogs need structure and packs provide that. Be it human/dog or all canine, a pack provides structure and social order. I have worked with captive wild canids and have observed pack dynamics and how it can be affected if a pack is separated (even if only temporarily). Everything gets thrown out of balance. The dogs fight, they howl more, and there is just a general unrest. Then, put the pack back together, and it all settles back down after their initial welcomes. It didn't really matter what member of the pack that was separated, it still affected the pack adversely.
Ferel domestic dogs will pack, given the opportunity, due to their innate ability to survive and their psyological design. Domestic dogs still maintain some of their "wild" cousins instinctual behaviors (ie: denning, scavaging, socialization, etc) and these behaviors were designed with survival in mind. Social animals have a better survival rate than solitary ones. A good example of this is leopards. The only time a leopard can be seen with another adult is during mating. Otherwise, they are strictly solitary cats. This explains why they are becoming a threatened species. There are many other stories as well. There is survival in numbers and this doesn't only apply to prey-species, but to the predators as well.
Any social animal has a social order within their "pack", "herd", etc. They have to have order or they would die.
 
edited to correct spelling.

Any social animal has a social order within their "pack", "herd", etc. They have to have order or they would die.

Humans do so, also. Although, in primates, a group is called a troop. It is my layman's opinion that dogs are trainable precisely because they are pack animals. As you said, social animals form groups with some kind of order to them. A dog wants to know where he fits in, and that is in a pack or group. And there will usually be a prime. Alpha, leader, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, for all the sound of a word may do. I happen to think the word, alpha, is used because much of science uses old latin and greek words in their eosteric jargon. In math, dodecahedron is a 20-sided figure. The word comes from the greek, who developed much of the basic math we use today. In fact, we didn't have new math until Newton came along and discovered calculus.

I suppose what differs is how we lead our dogs and which approaches work best.

ORIGINAL: ron2
 The word comes from the greek, who developed much of the basic math we use today. In fact, we didn't have new math until Newton came along and discovered calculus.

From now on Ron I will defer to your knowledge of training since I havn't been able to get my dogs past Trigonometry.

As well you should.[]
 
My dog can tell the difference between english, german, and spanish.

My dog just swallowed the clicker.

I snap my fingers, I call it the "Bargain Clicker"[]
 
I don't see dogs using clickers when behavior by another dog is not accepted.

ORIGINAL: snownose

I snap my fingers, I call it the "Bargain Clicker"[]

I don't see dogs using clickers when behavior by another dog is not accepted.

No, and you probably don't see them giving each other leash corrections either.  What's your point?

Hey Ann,
You should be happy to know I taught Macie "down" in one day on Tuesday and "shake hands" yesterday. She does both now without the clicker but took to it really easy.

Now I am going to use some violent, painful punishment on her just so you and her don't think I am getting soft.

My point? I don't use a clicker................never  had  any use for it.