Meat/meat-meal

My problem with the food reps is that they will tell you just about anything.  They are there to sell food, and unfortunately most of them will say whatever it takes to do that.

BilJac is a yucky food, IMHO.  However, it is for some reason GREAT at putting weight on a skinny dog.

Many of the super premium companies subcontract their canned foods.  Obviously they select a partner that they feel they can trust.  And in the recall, many of the better foods had recalled, or withdrew their canned, because of issues with the subcontractor.

Blue is a good example of this.  NONE of the dry foods were recalled.  The canned foods were pulled by the company after they learned that their sub contractor had added an ingredient that was not on the label, nor in the recipe.  There were NO contaminents found in the tested Blue, but regardless, the company pulled all the cans nationwide, destroyed them, and did not put canned food back on the shelves for several months until they found a partner they could trust, or built their own cannery, I'm  not sure which.  The point being here, that a lot of companies that were involved, even marginally, were not involved because of any fault or wrong doing on THEIR part.

Reading the BJ ingredients, I'm sorry, but I just can't believe that it sinks in water because of the high meat volume.

Meat meal IS better.  So long as it is a named meat meal.

 I'm cool with Bil-Jac.  Their sales reps are, like any sales reps, full of hooey.  But, some of what they say is true, about the kibble anyway.  I actually don't like the frozen very much.  I have a dog that does terrific on the ingredients.  One of the things I like about the kibble is that I can recite the ingredients from memory, just about, or I used to.  It's that basic.  There's no supplemental fat in it - because it's mostly chicken and by products which already include the fat.  Look at the percentage of fat in the product, then look at the ingredients - no supplemented fat and very high fat levels.  Ditto on the protein.  Corn's got some protein but whole grain corn doesn't have that much.

I like it but not because it sinks in water.  LOL  If it DOES do that it's because it's got less air in it than the comparison kibble. 

I have to agree with Glenmar.

Years ago, around 1995-96, when I was feeding Nature's Recipe, I thought BilJack was the next best thing new to the market, where I lived.

I had a dalmatian/alaskan malamute girl, who, in her later years really begin to teach me the quality of the different foods, and lack of nutrients she'd received in her earlier years. After some time of trying to regain her health, we did, very slowly, I began to realize that Nature's recipe, nor Bil jack were the foods of choice. I'm basing this comment off from what the ingredients of the BilJack foods were 12-14yrs ago, I have no idea what their quality of sources are now.

Salesman can be so good, or so irritating, that they'd have the nicest customer buying Science Diet.

Of course.  There's no objective hill where everyone should die on.  Witness the person who thinks taurine supplementation is an evil plot.  I'm on forums and lists where anyone who cooks the meat they feed their dogs is killing their dogs slowly.  I feed one of my dogs corn meal in his diet - many people recoil in horror at the bare thought. For some reason he does substantially better on corn than without.  We're not talking, a little more shine to his coat, but the difference between getting UTIs and not.  Who knew?

all one can say about Bil-jac is that it is better than the virtually meat-free foods like Beneful and Science Death. But while chicken organs aren't a bad thing to feed to dogs, when dog food companies list Chicken by-products on a bag well, you, and they, don't really have any idea what is in there. I understand it is basically the left-overs from slaughter. Varies from batch to batch. No consistency, no quality control. Could and probably did sit around decomposing in the trash bin before being collected for the dog food companies. Any food that lists by-products isn't something you want to feed.

And um, there were quite a few brands of dog food not affected by the recalls. And um, we can buy FRESH lamb from New Zealand here, somehow they manage to get it over without it spoiling, so I would question the story about the lamb as well.

dyan

Most if not all comes from New Zealand ( which John from EP verified a while back ) and he said "how do you think they get lamb here without it spoiling?????"  They cook it at very very high temps and then ship it over and it gets cooked again at very hight temperatures.....

I feed a premade raw made from New Zealand lamb. And it's raw.

 Ha ha!  I missed the point about the lamb.  Yes, there are these things called freezers.  Wonderful inventions.  They also allow us to get beef from the West Coast, East of the Mississippi.  Just imagine. 

Normally I'd agree with you about the by-products.  But Bil-Jac includes organ meat in their food and so by AAFCO rules has to call it "by-products" - but they also name the by-products.  To wit:

Chicken By-Products (Organs only, Including Chicken Liver)

It's like the thing about human-grade, named meat meal.  There's no difference between one meat meal or another - you can only take the company's word that it's human grade, since there's no AAFCO labeling standard regulating that.

The only thing that gives me pause and actually made me turn to Eagle Pack instead for Cord, was the BHA.  It's a human grade preservative but it's something I try to avoid myself.  It's not legal in other countries.  But, I don't blame them - it's an awfully unstable product to try to depend on "natural" preservatives like vitamin E that is, in itself, sensitive to freezing (freeze the bag, thaw it, now it's unprotected).  It's a tradeoff, just as EVERY commercial food has tradeoffs.  No commercial product has come up with a perfect way to offer optimum nutrition comparable to homemade. 

But Bil-Jac includes organ meat in their food and so by AAFCO rules has to call it "by-products" - but they also name the by-products. 

if that's true then why can you get dog foods that list organs like this without calling them by-products?

Lamb, Lamb Lungs, Wheat Flour, Wheat Bran, Lamb Hearts, Lamb Meal, Rice Flour, Sucrose, Sodium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Egg, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Glycerin, Lecithin, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Natural Smoke Flavor, Ascorbic Acid, Natural Flavor, Powdered Garlic, Vitamin E Supplement, Kelp Meal, Brewers Yeast, Calcium Disodium, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate, Rosemary Extract, Canola Oil, Sodium Erythorbate, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Sodium Nitrite, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Mixed Tocopherols

Chicken, Raw Ground Chicken Bone, Turkey, Turkey Liver, Turkey Heart, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin

The AAFCO definition of chicken by-products:

AAFCO: Consists of the clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines -- exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.

I suspect Biljac is feeding consumers a load of hooey about their use of chicken by-products.

Probably because the product they get is unsegregated viscera.  Those segregated livers and whatnot are very expensive products.  *Shrugs* - it's not a point of contention to me whether the product is 50% liver, 10% heart, 47% gizzard - and they say it's organ meat rather than carcass.

The problem with the hooey argument is that anyone could be feeding their consumers a load of hooey.  The only way to avoid that for sure is to offer 100% home prepared foods.

glenmar

There were NO contaminents found in the tested Blue, but regardless, the company pulled all the cans nationwide, destroyed them, and did not put canned food back on the shelves for several months until they found a partner they could trust, or built their own cannery, I'm  not sure which.  The point being here, that a lot of companies that were involved, even marginally, were not involved because of any fault or wrong doing on THEIR part.

But like you said Glenda.....salesmen are salesmen...they are here to sell and that is what they do when they tell us what we want to here. Why would I believe the Blue salesman any more than the BilJac guy or EP John for that matter?  

I have NO problem whatsoever with the by-products in BilJac,,,,and they go out of their way to list what it is unlike other companies...at least that I know of.  And they are under the AAFCO rules like the rest of the companies assuring that our dogs are getting what they need.

 And um, we can buy FRESH lamb from New Zealand here, somehow they manage to get it over without it spoiling, so I would question the story about the lamb as well.

Oh I know....I purchase it every now and then myself...but do they send over frozen for companies to make dog food? Probably not.

The only thing that gives me pause and actually made me turn to Eagle Pack instead for Cord, was the BHA. 

But there is no BHA in frozen.

Could and probably did sit around decomposing in the trash bin before being collected for the dog food companies.

Well...again you can believe a company if you wish and you could NOT believe a company if you wish.  While by products may not be consistent...BilJac gets there food from local farmers and thats all they do there is make dog food, so I would think it doesn't sit around the BilJac companys plant any longer than Eagle... or Solid Gold or any of them.  UNLESS you don't want to believe them.

I like it but not because it sinks in water.  LOL  If it DOES do that it's because it's got less air in it than the comparison kibble. 

Less air...more food to eat.

Hey...I am not arguing for the guy.... or the company.  You know... I used it for my Dane/Shepherd Cindy her whole healthy life years ago before they had invented BJ kibble.  It WAS the premium food at that time.  And I always said if I were to take my dog off kibble, I would only feed BJ Frozen because of the good luck we had with it. Its probably more digestable than any kibble in the world.

And you know.... the process in which they make their kibble JUST might make it better than the premium kibbles we are feeding and think is so much better...I don't know.

mudpuppy

Science Death

Wow.

mudpuppy

Turkey Liver, Turkey Heart,

BilJac: Chicken By Products (Organs Only, Including Chicken Liver),

They MIGHT be selling a lot of hooey as the other companies might..as I said....I guess its all who/what you want to believe.

I dont' know..I was just telling you what the guy said...thought it was interesting.  Sure not trying to sell BilJac.

Only thing I know is that for all the raw feeders that talk about what dogs ate in the wild...before they were domesticated.... I bet it was what those by-products are only INCLUDING the feather, feet and whatever.

Sounds like Bil-jack frozen isn't too bad.

What are the ingredients?

Any food item would frozen or preserved in shipping. The salesman was lying. It's what he does for a living. Just like a salesperson at Petland telling you they don't deal with puppy mills in spite of a paper trail that documents that very thing.

You can consider the opinion or knowledge of several people here who have studied this very thing, or you can believe the blitz of bs from a guy who lies for a living.