Help me out please...........

If he is doing great on a certain brand,, now matter what the brand, stick with it or you could end up with problems all over again,  I have aways had Purina dogs, they did great.  I do have KayCee on the Taste of the Wild now because I want her on grainless.(is 8 1/2, knee surgeires on both knes many yars ago, trying to slow down the onset or problems with arthritis)  I have never seen any granless food by Purina or she would be on it.  We are limited to what we can find around here and since i don't wnat to switch food at the drop of the hate because i can't get what they are on, I stick with the one food (Honey is purina One) and home cooked. 

 The other night on the gambling boat i was discussing dogs with a couple about my age and they said they no longer had dogs bcause they travel a lot, but their daughter 7 husband have 3 pit bulls and one of them is   having running poop all the time and throwing up from to time.  Was talking about the expensive, top of the line food she feeds her 3 pits (no kids, the dogs are their "family";).  The daughter had been telling them about the high price of the food and how much better it was than the brand THEY had fed their dog when she was growing up, etc.  The guy said "We may have used cheap food, but our dogs all lived to their teens ane were healthy. Her dogs get illnessess and problems ours didn't get.  I asked her if dogs are living twice as long today because of the expensive dog food.,,or are folks just being fooled into thinking it is so much better."

 I hvae to admit, that is a good angle. Our setters and pointers lived to and past the life expectency.  I see posts on the golden retriever forums of goldens being fed Pedigree, Iam,s etc and are up in their teens.  Others being fed top of the line are dying at 6-7 and even younger.  So i really can't say that feeding those 'top of the the" foods years to dogs lives or not.  So i think feed what works, be it cheapest or most expensive.

 

 

 

 

sandra_slayton

The other night on the gambling boat i was discussing dogs with a couple about my age and they said they no longer had dogs bcause they travel a lot, but their daughter 7 husband have 3 pit bulls and one of them is   having running poop all the time and throwing up from to time.  Was talking about the expensive, top of the line food she feeds her 3 pits (no kids, the dogs are their "family";).  The daughter had been telling them about the high price of the food and how much better it was than the brand THEY had fed their dog when she was growing up, etc.  The guy said "We may have used cheap food, but our dogs all lived to their teens ane were healthy. Her dogs get illnessess and problems ours didn't get.  I asked her if dogs are living twice as long today because of the expensive dog food.,,or are folks just being fooled into thinking it is so much better."

     I tend to agree with you on this. I know people with a 14 yr old Rottie who eats Pedigree. Good body condition, hips are starting to go, but nothing more serious than a bad case of arthritis. Show breeder friend feeds mainly Pedigree to her 11 hounds. I also know that some breeders recommend Pedigree for dogs who were previously incontinant. Many of these "tried and true" brands have been around the block & are formulating diets based solely on the nutritional erquirements of dogs, not what WE like to see on an ingredient panel. They have superior research & development teams, while some of the newer holistic companies are formulating their foods on a computer program   Purina, for instance, has been raising dogs for decades for the sole purpose of determining the nutritional value of their diets. Let me tell you, I had bitches not coming into heat on designer foods, in poor body condition, no energy or hyperhyperhyper, digestive issues ... Not all the designer foods are like that, but I think they are nowhere near as good as they're touted as being. There is a whole lot of deceptive advertising going on, and it's at our dog's expense. 
     I'm not saying to go out & feed ol Roy, but the best brands seem to be the mid grade ones. Blackwood, Black Gold, Purina, Pedigree.
     Personally, I know many people here, on other nutrition boards usually have say 3 dogs on 3 different foods. Nothing wrong with that, per se, but I'm happy that I can keep 11 dogs on ONE diet (Purina One), and it's the best food for all of them. Many people call it cheap, well fine. It literally turned around the general health of my best brood bitch who I thought I wasn't going to be able to breed again, due to bad arthritis, failure to thrive after a dog attack. That has to account for something.

HoundMusic

sandra_slayton

The other night on the gambling boat i was discussing dogs with a couple about my age and they said they no longer had dogs bcause they travel a lot, but their daughter 7 husband have 3 pit bulls and one of them is   having running poop all the time and throwing up from to time.  Was talking about the expensive, top of the line food she feeds her 3 pits (no kids, the dogs are their "family";).  The daughter had been telling them about the high price of the food and how much better it was than the brand THEY had fed their dog when she was growing up, etc.  The guy said "We may have used cheap food, but our dogs all lived to their teens ane were healthy. Her dogs get illnessess and problems ours didn't get.  I asked her if dogs are living twice as long today because of the expensive dog food.,,or are folks just being fooled into thinking it is so much better."

     I tend to agree with you on this. I know people with a 14 yr old Rottie who eats Pedigree. Good body condition, hips are starting to go, but nothing more serious than a bad case of arthritis. Show breeder friend feeds mainly Pedigree to her 11 hounds. I also know that some breeders recommend Pedigree for dogs who were previously incontinant. Many of these "tried and true" brands have been around the block & are formulating diets based solely on the nutritional erquirements of dogs, not what WE like to see on an ingredient panel. They have superior research & development teams, while some of the newer holistic companies are formulating their foods on a computer program   Purina, for instance, has been raising dogs for decades for the sole purpose of determining the nutritional value of their diets. Let me tell you, I had bitches not coming into heat on designer foods, in poor body condition, no energy or hyperhyperhyper, digestive issues ... Not all the designer foods are like that, but I think they are nowhere near as good as they're touted as being. There is a whole lot of deceptive advertising going on, and it's at our dog's expense. 
     I'm not saying to go out & feed ol Roy, but the best brands seem to be the mid grade ones. Blackwood, Black Gold, Purina, Pedigree.
     Personally, I know many people here, on other nutrition boards usually have say 3 dogs on 3 different foods. Nothing wrong with that, per se, but I'm happy that I can keep 11 dogs on ONE diet (Purina One), and it's the best food for all of them. Many people call it cheap, well fine. It literally turned around the general health of my best brood bitch who I thought I wasn't going to be able to breed again, due to bad arthritis, failure to thrive after a dog attack. That has to account for something.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. 

You know, it's funny because my "outside knowledge" on nutrition (aka what I've learned for myself and not through school) has evolved over the past year or two.  I began by thinking that what they were teaching me in school was a bunch of BS, and I went on my own endeavors to research "holistic" foods and was pretty much sold on the idea.  After acquiring my first dog, I went through absolute HELL trying to find a food that worked for him!  I tried EVERYTHING that I thought was "the top of the line" (TWO, Solid Gold, Wellness, NV, etc) and he had nothing but problems.  Soon after that, I had an epiphany...I thought "what the hell, I'm going to try the old faithful foods that people keep saying are so bad."  So, I switched Wolfie to Purina ONE lamb & rice puppy...and BOOM, everything was great.  During this phase I also used Bil-Jac and Eukanuba Small Breed adult since he was such a picky eater (these were the only foods he would eat happily).  After awhile, I started feeling guilty that maybe I was doing something wrong, even though he was doing amazingly.  So, I went back on the "searching for a new premium food" and was switching almost every other week trying to find something that worked.  Then, I acquired my second dog, Falon.  I started her on Eagle Pack Holistic and she did OK, but was having some GI issues.  After becoming frustrated with Wolfie's situation, I took another turn back to the "old faithful" dog foods (which is where I am at now).  I put Wolfie on Pro Plan Selects Salmon & Brown rice, and put Falon on Science Diet Lamb & Rice puppy (mixed with PPS Salmon) in addition to the same supplements they have always been on (Derm Caps & joint/probiotic).  Everyone is doing amazingly and I just can't seem to convince myself to switch to anything else.....I mean, you think I would learn from trial and error, right? lol

I have never owned a dog with digestive problems, chronic throwing up or runny poop (xcept the one time i tried Buck on "better food than purina" and i have owned dogs 51 years. Our pointers and setters could hunt sun up til sundown 7 days a week  I do not believe for one second they could have been any healtheir, any  more active, lived longer had they been on a 'better food."  BUT i also certainly believe that some dogs would not do well on purina at all.

 

Also, I think dogs do  not live any longer today than they did 40 years ago, on average, and from what i read here and on other forums, it seems dogs actually have more problems today than they did 40 years ago.    But I also think this is from the more polluted air, all the vax and flea and heart worm prevention.    You would think that the dogs being feed the "better food' would not have as many problems, but it appears they do.  I say this while feeding Honey Purina One and feeding kayCee grainless Taste of the Wild.    I hae dogs on both ends and the ONLY reason kayCee is on the top is because of it being grain free and higher protien.  Honey does fab on the purina one.  And by the way, for those that love to talk poop, both girls have very small poop, which can b a problem becaue i sometimes have problem finding it!   But to be honest, i have always been more concerned about the condition of my dogs rather than the size of their poop.

I have never owned a dog with chronic digestive problems or runny poop since I STOPPED feeding purina. I can point to many a very unhealthy looking purina-eating dog at our local dog park as supportive evidence that most dogs do not do well on it long term. There may be a few dogs out there that do OK despite being fed purina. There are a few formulas that Purina puts out, like the sensitive skin and stomach one, that actually aren't garbage, but most are. I think the biggest difference in dog health since "back then" and now is the lack of supplementation of the diet- we fed dogs grocery store brands, and they were tremendously healthy because we also fed them table scraps and they engaged in "self-serve" raw foraging. So many people nowadays have been brainwashed into thinking "kibble only" for dogs, "people food is bad for dogs".

 Anyway, back to the OP: I'm with Brookcove. Lots of dogs seem to have trouble utilizing plant oils. If your dog is deficient in omega-3's, you're going to get inflammation, bad skin, aggravation of allergies, all sorts of adverse side effects. These dogs need fish oils.

I bought some fish oil last night for Kord. Going to make sure that he gets enough and we will see how he does.

Mudpuppy, I tend to agree with your last statement. In today's world not only have people gone from eating healthy (I am one of them, trying to get back to a healthy diet) so have our animals, the typical dog in the 70's ate chuck wagon for dinner, got table scraps and foraged for sure. I feel that we have stepped away for healthy living and bought into a whole new style that has made us "super sized" susceptible to disease, cancer and allergies.

I feed Kord scraps as well as kibble, he gets all kinds of things that would make a good portion of this forum cringe.

Thank you all for your replies, I believe that we are going to avoid plant based oils for now.

mudpuppy

I have never owned a dog with chronic digestive problems or runny poop since I STOPPED feeding purina. I can point to many a very unhealthy looking purina-eating dog at our local dog park as supportive evidence that most dogs do not do well on it long term. There may be a few dogs out there that do OK despite being fed purina. There are a few formulas that Purina puts out, like the sensitive skin and stomach one, that actually aren't garbage, but most are.

     I'd love to scan in some pages from my Today's Breeder issues that Purina puts out. I'd try to get in the article regarding Jagersboro Kennels, who have been feeding Purina products for 40 somehat years - if that is not long term success, there is no such thing! Apparently, the overwhelming majority of dogs who are in the top standings of their breed, BIS winners, field champions ... well, they're all fed Purina, mainly Pro Plan. Did you happen to see the Beagle that made breed history by winning the Westminster Kennel Club? Both his breeders feed Purina either exclusively or to all their pups, as does his current owner. So the top winning hound, top winning 15" male of all time, was concieved on, weaned onto and continues to be fed Pro Plan. Some of the top breeders in field trial/hunting Beagles have gone back to Purina, and they will feed mainly Dog Chow/Hi Pro or Purina One. You cannot have a successful breeding program and feed rubbish. Because deficiencies show up awful fast when you have a kennel full of performance animals - you'd have bitches looking haggard and malnourished after whelping, unthrifty pups, dogs that don't have the extra energy needed to win.
     The bitch in my siggy was on another diet when I got her, one tht looked better than Purina One does on paper. Yet she was a mess of hot spots, thin coat, rotted teeth, ear infection, discolored paws from the constant licking, body odor. I also have another bitch who was having a hard time getting back into decent condition after a dog attack. I would expect that a poor quality food might keep normal, healthy dogs looking fairly good for a while, until everything went to hell from deficiencies. It certainly wouldn't miraculously turn around dogs who were in low grade health and make them THRIVE! It wouldn't regulate heat cycles that went "off" on foods like Merrick, Timberwolf Organic, Healthwise, Evolve. 
     There are different formulas of Purina that I wouldn't ever touch (like Beneful, Mainstay) but that has nothing to do with the quality of their other diets. I can't believe Purina isn't working long term for most dogs because there are everyday owners as well as top winning breeders who have been feeding the food for 20, 30, 40, 50 years!!!

 

Hound Music, you are exactly right- about long term feeding a product and the results. I have feed Purina for 51 years, my dad fed it before i did and our dogs did not get scraps except bones when we had quail, dove, duck, rabbit, squirrel or domestic meat. HOWEVER we ate beans ane cornbread 4-5 nights a week and with a family of 7, no scraps. Also, as our dogs quail hunters, they were considered valuabe and were not allowed to run free, therefore catch, kill and eat wild game. They were penned unless we were playing with them or we were hunting with them. Their long, healthy lives came from those bags of purina dog food, NOT scraps and wild game they caught theirselves. The last thing you want a bird dog doing is chasing and catching rabbits, birds, etc. They are to point/set, or flush (certain breeds) and retriever shot birds without a tooth m ark. They are not to chase rabbits, etc. This applied to all our friends who were hunters . I don't know what brands of food many of them used, but both of my uncles used Purina and as far as I know, back then, there weren't that many brand and certainly none of the so call premium of today. But as i have said so m any times, Purina is not for every dog. Timber Wolf is not for every dog, Science Diet is not for every dog, Eagle Pack isnt for every dog, Taste of the Wild isn't for every dog. you just find what works for you dog and do not use what doesn't work just because it works for the dog next doorl And just because something doesn't work for you dog does not mean it is a bad food. It simply means it didn't work for you dog.

Hi Sandra   so good to see everyone again.  I gave up thinkiing the forum was gone forever.  I am so excited!  Since I am exploring major food issues with Dublin right now.  And how ironic that I just bought PP Sensitive Skin/Stomach yesterday.  I swore this time I wasn't gonna use regular Pro Plan and here I am.  So far he loves it.  I am mixing it with his Puppy Pro Plan Selects Turkey/Barley.  It is way to soon to know if this will fix his stomach woes yet.  He has a totally sensitive stomach and throws up bile if he even licks a plate from dinner.  He loves to jump on them while I load the dinner dishes.  So I am not sure if he is having a problem from that OR because I bought the adult forumula to ween him over and he is gassed up sick big time and pukey now.  So back to puppy today and mixing in the PP Sensitive to see what happens.  Purina recommended we get back on puppy first and slowly try the other.  I will start another thread about my issues.  I do know as far as your dog and figuring out what he is reacting too....it's best to pay for the testing and know for sure.  You could guess and keep switching and that can mess up your dog even more.  I know many who have great results with the PP Salmon but if it has something in it that isn't right for your dog you need to know that.  And then find the diet that has the least ingredients that he is showing sensitivities to or for sure reactive to.

I have played food roulette with Harley.  He started on Beneful(that is what he was on when I got him).Authority, Purina One, Purina Pro Plan, Avoderm, Solid Gold,Timberwolf Organics, Wellness, and now Taste of the Wild. 

He did quite well with Wellness and I saw the most improvement with him(energy, coat and skin condition) but not good enough yet for me.  He has had issues on many different foods too numerous to list.  I am trying the TOTW which is grain free.  I am hopeful that this may just be the right food for him.  I also supplement with Probios and Cod Liver Oil as well as vitamin C.

I think that as owners it is our job to find the food that works best for our dog/s.  That doesn't necessarily mean top of the line food.  What good is top of the line if the dog has issues with it? 

I know we all want the best for our dogs and we should not be judged purely on what we feed them as to how well we take care of them.