What's wrong with gluten?

Here's a really good website with information on gluten and your pet:

http://www.dogtorj.net/id32.html

I won't give it because it was the main ingredient involved in all of the pet food recalls. 

  There's nothing wrong with it as long as meat is the first ingredient in the dog food so you know your dog is getting more protein from meat instead of a grain source. Corn gluten, for example, is very digestible and dogs utilize it very well. The reason for avoiding gluten is because it was rice gluten that had the melamine in it; whole grains are much safer.

Completely aside from the recalls, gluten can just plain be a big allergen. 

     Dunno what's supposedly wrong with it ... they can be allergens, but ANY food in the world can be an allergen for any dog or person. Have heard some mention that glutens are not good for dogs with epilepsy, but then I have an epileptic who has always thrived on a certain food that contains corn gluten. Plus a mutt with terrible allergies (food/inhalant) that can only eat this particular food w/ the corn glutens. So go figure!? It is a decent source of protein, and along with the meat in a food can provide a good balance of animal and plant based proteins. I'd say it's certianly not the best ingredient, though far, far from being the worst.  

will the dog's body really treat that protein differently than the meat protein?

This scientist is quite certain of it:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polly_Matzinger.  So much so, that her own dogs are fed exclusively prey model raw.  Her view of this was developed after researching maternal immunity - in particular whether maternal immune transfer factors can be passed via the gi in children with hemophilia (to minimize injections).  These proteins must be recognizable by the immune system, by the time they reach the bloodstream.

Surprisingly, early work that her project has done, suggests that this is the case!  Previous notions of how the immune system works make the assumption that a protein is a protein and is intrinsically harmless without repeated exposure to trigger a predisposition to allergic response.  Dr. Matzinger thinks that a protein can become a trigger after just one exposure under the right circumstances.

Polly is a friend and it has been after a few conversations with her that I have switched Ben to prey model also, after trying for years to fit his problems into my view of what he needed (carbs, for instance). 

Thanks! All the replies make perfect sense. So whole grains are definitely better, but there is nothing wrong with gluten as long as animal protein makes up most the diet and the dog is not allergic to the gluten.

 

I feel that corn/wheat/rice gluten are cheap protein alternatives and that some manufactorers add them to the their dog/cat foods to boost protein content. Even if they do also add meats, it's not really my idea of what my dog should eat (if they already have the meat, why add the gluten as well?). Does it automatically make the food bad? I don't personally think so, although I won't feed foods containing because there are plenty of options out there that have meat for protein, not gluten.

For treats I don't worry so much. Treats don't make up anything more than a miniscule part of Maddi's diet. So long as they don't have artificial preservatives, even cheaper protein sources/fat sources (I.e. by-products or animal fat), and they are made in the U.S.A. (preferably) or other country that I feel has high quality standards as well...Canada for example, I don't worry too much.

When I said gluten can be an allergen I wasn't saying "avoid all gluten" -- I was simply saying what *can* be wrong with it.

When you have a dog with any kind of skin problems and you go to a holistic vet for help, about the first thing they say is "no wheat" and then often thats amended to "no wheat gluten".  In Billy's case it was "No wheat, soy or dairy".  I'm as sure as I'm sitting here that Billy isn't "allergic" to them, however, while we're re-training his body to be less sensitive to allergens generally, I've done exactly what the vet asked simply to keep any potential inflammation at bay.

I home cook for my 3 so I've DONE the whole elmination diet thing, but sometimes you just plain have to stack the deck in the dog's favor, which is all I'm doing.

But the original question "what's wrong with gluten" can have 999,000 potential panicked responses -- likely none of which may have a thing to do with your dog.  But shoot, just for once in my life I was trying to be brief -- *rolling eyes* and look where it got me ~grin~

But the short answer can get really complicated really fast. 

gluten is protein purified from corn or wheat. you realize that "protein" is actually composed of many different amino acids? and if you don't eat these amino acids in the proper proportions you can't utilize them. Animal sources of protein come in the proper proportions. Plant sources of protein do not. So if your dog food company spikes the dog food with, say, corn gluten, they can claim the food reaches acceptable levels of crude protein. But when that food hits the dog's body, most of the protein in the food is unusable due to its improper proportions of amino acids. Since gluten is pure protein it can be several ingredients down on the ingredient list and still cause a significant increase in the amount of protein the manufacturer can claim is in the food. Bottom line any company that spikes dog food with glutens is flat-out lying to you. I don't trust any company that is willing to do that. Now, doggy treats made out of gluten are an entirely different story- if it's a treat, and the dog tolerats it, go right ahead and give it.

jettababy

 I know a lot of people are against corn/wheat gluten. I noticed it is in the dental treat bones I give to Jetta, so I wanted to know why you guys think it is bad. I honestly don't really know what it is, exactly. I do know that I eat quite a bit of it since I am a vegetarian and the imitation meats I eat contain wheat gluten sometimes.

 Also, I don't understand why people say that it artificially raises the protein content of a food. Sure, meat protein is the best for dogs, but if a food has gluten along with the meat, will the dog's body really treat that protein differently than the meat protein?

Abady quote:

I think abady is refering to intestinal villi (villa is what I'd like to rent in Italy). Gluten distroys intestinal villi when the person or animal has an intorerence to gluten or has celiac disease. The damage to the intestinal villi is usually reversed after a few months of a gluten free diet in humans, and symptoms normally disapear after a few weeks.

I have a lot of family members with celiac disease. I'm glad I don't have it. It's a pain in the butt to cook for them when they come over. I wouldn't want to live with it every day.

If the animal or person doesn't have an intolerance to gluten it is fine. I avoid foods with gluten because it spikes the protein level and because it was the problem ingredient that caused all of the recalls. I would say if your dog does fine with the treats to not worry about it.

If you find it listed before the fat source on the ingredient panel it is a poor quality feed. Very little of the protein is coming from animal protein even if a meat source is listed first. It's like feeding your dog twinkies at every meal. So many good foods are in the market place today. You do not have to buy this junk food for your dog. A lot of people feel it is one major reason for all the dog diabetes being seen. Whole grains are not bad for a dog if found in kibble because the cooking process makes it very digestible but only if you see a meat meal eg.(Chicken Meal) listed first. If it says whole chicken that is 80 percent water. And the only reason it is listed as the  first ingredient is because of the water weight. It is what the Law requires.

So look to the left of the fat source. If you see any gluten avoid that food at all costs.  It's manufactured for profit only. Not the health of your pet.

Read all you can about how to judge a quality food.  But realize just because it reads good it may or may not work for your dog.

Stick with these companies if you can

NaturaPet (INNOVA, EVO, California Natural, Healthwise.)

Eagle Pack (Holistic Select)

Both own their own manufacturing plants and make a food that should work for your dog. In this Global Market today they stand above most others. Not to say there are not others, but in my experience they have good customer service and the quality of the foods do not change from bag to bag. And I have fed these to my dog with wonderful results.

cc431

Gluten is the protein of grain and has a nutritional value of zero, making it the worst source of protein in the industry.  There are serious side effects associated with the inclusion of large amounts of gluten in a ration as well.  Gluten destroys the villa that line the intestines through which nutrients are pushed into the bloodstream.  The gluten filters into the villa and hardens when it dries, causing the villa to break off.  Since the villa cannot regenerate themselves, the damage is irreparable and permanent.   The destruction of the villa can result in an inability to absorb nutrients because nutrient absorption is site-specific.  If the sites at which specific nutrients are absorbed are nullified by effects of the gluten, the animal may not be able to absorb these particular nutrients – creating deficiencies that could be irreparable.

     Actually, that's not true at all. The gluten is removed from the whole corn - and it's the most concentrated source of protein in the corn. It's also relatively low in starch, high in corn oil. It's a good source of plant based protein - not the best, but not as horrible as you're making it out to be. Regarding your claims of corn gluten's effect on the digestive system, do you have any scientific sources to back this up with fact? It sounds very much like scare tactics to me.
     Some fun facts about corn gluten: Corn Gluten Feed -- Composition, Storage, Handling, Feeding and Value
     From TWO's website: Myths & Misconception
"Some companies may list meat but actually use meal. Of those that actually can add meat it’s not quite what you would expect. It’s usually mechanically de boned and mixed with water to make a slurry that is pumped into the extruder. The most you can use in a formula is limited to about 30% but can be as little as 3%. What starts out as chicken with 78% moisture is now perhaps 90% moisture cooked down to 10%. That 30% you started out with is now about 3.3% or less dry matter. To get the protein up you must now add corn gluten meal or another protein source. Corn gluten meal is a good protein source, it’s high in the sulfur containing amino acids, but a lot of people (myself included) prefer an animal based protein which means you must add animal meals which means it is not 100% human grade."

     As they say, the "proof is in the pudding". I have a 5 yo bitch who was mauled by my GSD about 18 months ago. She was generally run down, and, as could be expected, quite arthritic & stiff from the trauma. I couldn't get her coat in good condition, she had no stamina at all, and very poor muscle mass. She would either be too skinny, where ribs were visible, or would get a padding of fat w/o the muscle. I tried meat based foods - home cooked, Merrick, TWO. Finally, on the Merrick Wilderness Blend, her coat turned brittle and was so terribly thin :( The first pic is of her on home cooked. The second isn't a prize winning pic, lol, but you can get a good idea of her cange in muscle mass/coat pigmentation on a food that contins corn gluten as one of the main protein sources. Her coat is soft as velvet, stools are PERFECT. Has more energy, stamina than she's had since before the attack. Coat pigment is beautiful, and still coming in thicker ... Were this a poor protein source, I'd not expect a bitch in such sorry condition make such a dramatic comeback to health.