What's wrong with gluten?

Another interesting thing about corn gluten meal. It's used as an organic herbicide. Stops weeds in their tracks. So I can only imagine what it does to our dogs and cats intestines.

http://wihort.uwex.edu/turf/CornGluten.htm

HoundMusic

Regarding your claims of corn gluten's effect on the digestive system, do you have any scientific sources to back this up with fact? It sounds very much like scare tactics to me.

HoundMusic, See my post above. Gluten only has a bad effect on the digestive system when the person or animal has an intorerence to gluten or has celiac disease. You won't see a problem in your dog otherwise (same with people, most can eat gluten but some just can't).

Abady's article doesn't have accurate information, and also has some spelling mistakes.

exactly. There is nothing wrong with feeding your dog gluten, IF AND ONLY IF the dog gets most of his protein from meat, and doesn't have an intolerance to it, such as allergy or celiac disease, and the gluten hasn't been spiked with toxins by folks in china.

Thanks for creating this thread jettababy. I enjoy reading everyone's opinion about this. Makes me want to research more about it. :o)

The amino acids that are usually most limiting are lysine, methionine, and arginine. The ratio of needed lysine to methionine is approximately 3:1. One common way to look at the quality of protein sources is to compare amino acid content relative to milk. The following compares lysine, methionine, and arginine in some common protein sources relative to what is contained in milk. Calculations are from Chandler, 1989 (Feedstuffs 61(26):14).

	LYS	MET	ARG
Milk	100	100	100
Rumen microbes	100	97	79
Blood meal	91	45	33
Brewers grains	34	78	53
Corn gluten meal	18	100	36
Distiller grains with solubles	24	81	42
Feather meal	13	23	32
Fish meal	80	100	59
Meat & bone meal	55	49	76
Soybean meal	70	56	89

You see how low corn gluten is in lysine? it's an incomplete protein source.

HoundMusic

I tried meat based foods - home cooked, Merrick, TWO. Finally, on the Merrick Wilderness Blend, her coat turned brittle and was so terribly thin :( The first pic is of her on home cooked. The second isn't a prize winning pic, lol, but you can get a good idea of her cange in muscle mass/coat pigmentation on a food that contins corn gluten as one of the main protein sources. Her coat is soft as velvet, stools are PERFECT. Has more energy, stamina than she's had since before the attack. Coat pigment is beautiful, and still coming in thicker ... Were this a poor protein source, I'd not expect a bitch in such sorry condition make such a dramatic comeback to health.

   There is quite a difference between the 2 pics. Another member who raises Beagles for hunting found that her dogs did much better with corn in their food; more energy, better muscle mass, and shiny coats.
 

mudpuppy

You see how low corn gluten is in lysine? it's an incomplete protein source

  Yes, but dog food manufacturers know that and also use other protein sources so there is the correct balance of amino acids.
 

HoundMusic

     Actually, that's not true at all. ...

Feed all the gluten you want, but I'll stay away as much as possible.  You can believe whatever you like, but I'll stick with the plan that says gluten it is one of the worst sources of protein in the industry and has a nutritional value of zero for dogs.  Yes, proof is in the pudding and I am pleased with the results I see.

SalemsMom

HoundMusic, See my post above. Gluten only has a bad effect on the digestive system when the person or animal has an intorerence to gluten or has celiac disease. You won't see a problem in your dog otherwise (same with people, most can eat gluten but some just can't).

Abady's article doesn't have accurate information, and also has some spelling mistakes.

     If there is celaic disease, yes, that is what happens to the intestinal lining. We're not talking about gluten's effect on allergic persons or animals, rather it's relevance as an ingredient & general safety. Animals can be allergic to anything, I'm sure many are bothered by gluten allergies, as are humans. The problem is, dogs are not going to develop cleaic disease simply by consuming corn gluten. There must be a predisposition and it's not a common allergy, either. My problem comes in when someone makes a statement that eating corn gluten will cause the villae of a dog's intestine to disattach when in fact, no, that alone won't do it. Again, we weren't really referring to those who have specific allergic reaction to gluten - of course they need to stay away from that, but it just doens't apply to your average dog. 
     The other point I was trying to get across is that corn gluten is a relevant source of protein, because when used as teh main grain in the food, it has proven itself to be quite digestable and results producing in your average dog.
    
     Also, corn gluten IS used as an organic herbicide, NOT because it contains some sort of poisonous substance, but due to the fact it prevents seeds from germinating - it's not killing the lawn or the weeds. Corn gluten will actually smother the weed's seedlings by preventing their roots from absorbing mositure. Along those lines, it's also used as a natural fertilizer, due to it's nutrient content.

In comparison, there is no comparison between benefits of corn gluten meals for dogs and the dangers of a reliance of wheat gluten proteins in the dogs diet...apples and oranges.

corn gluten meal. It's used as an organic herbicide. Stops weeds in their tracks. So I can only imagine what it does to our dogs and cats intestines.

It works by stimulating growth beyond what the roots can supply, similar to 2-D-4 (a growth hormone).  Dog insides aren't plants, so I think they are safe in that respect.

What is not safe is the fact that there's been so much problem with the supply of these ingredients.  And in a food that is not thoughtfully balanced with regard to amino acids, it is very worrisome when one sees corn gluten somewhat high on the list.  CGM is around 37 to 40% protein by weight, (soybean meal is 44 to 49% CP by comparison) while meat meal is usually around 55% and moisture included meat is generally only in the twenties.
 

brookcove

It works by stimulating growth beyond what the roots can supply, similar to 2-D-4 (a growth hormone).  Dog insides aren't plants, so I think they are safe in that respect.

What is not safe is the fact that there's been so much problem with the supply of these ingredients.  And in a food that is not thoughtfully balanced with regard to amino acids, it is very worrisome when one sees corn gluten somewhat high on the list.  ... 

Exactly right and one of the reasons corn products and corn gluten meals was pulled a number of years back from what my feed maker was doing.  You can't trust the corn anymore in itself (not that they can't balance in regards to amino acids), it is different in many respects.  Quicker growth, special hybrid seeds has altered the corn genetics to enough of a degree dogs were coming down with issues when for many years it was a once long time safe staple ingredient in dog food.  But corn gluten itself IS NOT the concern in regards to a feed as opposed to feeds with a heavy reliance on the protein from wheat, rye, and barley.  Animal source proteins without question are the best sources of protein for dogs (meat, chicken, and fish) and too much gluten source proteins and the reliance of (cost savings) has been identified as problematic in regards to nutrition for our dogs.  The product I use makes every effort to avoid the use of gluten source proteins thus yielding in higher safety.  And those products do not get affect by recalls.  I know may it doesn't sit well with a lot of folks for whatever the reason, but I welcome that approach to feeding, more animal source and avoid the gluten.

One can only think they are fooling mother nature, the biggest problem is that gluten is the ultimate means of man to make a profit. You don't see gluten growing in the trees less ground.

It enables Pet Food Companies to increase the protein levels inexpensively so they meet the guaranteed analysis on the bag.

See Corn gluten .. Run    far far away.     If you see whole corn it is closer to nature, but man gets the best and what's left over for dogs is the poorest quality.

You can argue amino acids and what ever. The closer you keep it natural the better.

Chicken or the egg, which comes first. Bowel dysfunction or predisposition. IMHO no need to temp it. Better foods are in the market place and if you are smart enough to run a computer and do the research gluten does not need to be fed to you or your pet.Table scraps would be better.

Corn gluten is used to manage the ash content in pet foods.  By adding corn gluten you can increase the protien of foods without increasing the ash level, that can not be done by adding animal protiens, it is also a urine acidifyer which many pets may need, many human foods can be used as herbicides and pesticides, including vinegar, salt and numerous berries, the list goes on and on.

  Yes, but dog food manufacturers know that and also use other protein sources so there is the correct balance of amino acids.

really? here's a blatant example. I see nothing added to provide the missing lysine and arginine. They claim it's 30% protein, but most likely it has close to 20% USABLE protein. A complete and utter lie. And this is supposed to be a fairly reputable company.