Greatest nutritional diet per cost...........

cc431

ottoluv

Charlie you are just wrong, you CAN be allergic to white rice. One can be allergic to most anything. Sorry, but that is just nonsense. I'd advise you to not for once only believe what Abady says and actually read an immunology textbook.

Yea, sure.  Is that immunology textbook for humans or dogs?  I think my dog is allergic to outside air.  I'll try some lentil beans, maybe that will help.

 http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/8624.php;

" Rice allergy is common in countries in Eastern Asia, such as Japan, where rice is commonly eaten, but it isn't common in the UK.People who are allergic to rice can react when they eat it or when they inhale its pollen. Rice can cause hayfever symptoms in areas where it's grown commercially.

brookcove

 You didn't answer my question of how flaxseed oil, safflower oil, and natural flavoring are any more carnivore-based than blueberries and kale. 

Well, true one could argue a dog in the wild wouldn't be munching on sunflower stalks or safflower in an attempt squeeze out the oils.  That would be just as absurd as thinking in pursuit of a meal the animal is taking down prey to go after stomach contents loaded up with grain matter.  I think the point of these ingredients (the oils) being in the diet are the absolute best premier source of the very important omega 3 and 6 fatty acids available in the market place.  There is nothing there that could potentially harm your carnivore as opposed to the potential harm that could occur from using other sources.  The focus therefore is avoiding ingredients that could damage and choosing ingredients that are not going to harm your dog.  I think the business of feeding fruits and vegetables for carnivore feeding translates into higher profit margins for companies.  They will sacrifice your dogs nutrition for profit margin.  The product I choose to feed is not sacrificing nutrition in exchange to satisfying the share holders of a company.

We don't know what 'Natural Flavoring' is, do you?  If we can't say for sure what it is, than I don't think if would be fair to comment on its suitability for carnivores.  I think I know what it is and have an opinion based upon the company philosophy, but I could not say for certain.  If you were to discover natural flavoring is blood, I am sure you would agree it is suitable for carnivore feeding.

He is not trashing other feeds in his literature.  He does not single out any one particular feed or company and says it is bad stuff.  He does indicate however what he feels is wrong with the dog food industry as a whole, and how the profit motive of companies has sacrificed nutrition for the almighty dollar.  The approach is when you feed well, very well at that, dogs don't suffer from a whole host of aliments but rather thrive to their fullest potential.  Structuring a diet appropriately (regardless of cost or profit margin) is priority one because the health and nutrition of the animal is also priority one.

Regardless of your feeling, whether it be personal or not, you must admit you have an extreme biased in regards to this company.  Whether it be marketing strategy, politics, don't like the people who feed it, the company approach to nutrition, you are biased and simply do not like this product.  We are all entitled to our opinions.

CC

stanton

for now, my Vet has advised a good homemade balanced sheet for us for the homecooked portion for the little dogs,

  That's neat; my vet isn't as knowledgeable on nutrition. I don't do a totally home cooked diet now, but may do so by this summer. Jessie's not as bad as Ben, but she has several food allergies, and now I'm suspecting she may be allergic to rice. If this proves to be the case, home cooking will be about my only option. She does very well with premium kibbles and added meat, so I've been reluctant to go this route, and can understand how you feel about doing it all yourself.
 

Please tell me the percentages of meat/bone versus veggies that I should feed then, perhaps I will simply purchase the meat/bone/organ packages only and add my own veggie mix every few days.

the usual quoted percents are: 60% raw meaty bones, 30% muscle meat, 5% organ meat, 5% veggies. Lots of people, however, have removed the veggie part completely and their dogs do fine.

Check the packages of pre-made raw carefully. An acceptable pre-made raw diet will have AT LEAST 13% protein wet matter basis / 40% protein on a dry matter basis, preferably more. A home-made raw diet following the above-quoted amounts will usually exceed 60% protein on a dry matter basis. Some places make formulas with ridiculous amounts of vegetation in them. Might as well feed cheap kibble instead.

mudpuppy

Please tell me the percentages of meat/bone versus veggies that I should feed then, perhaps I will simply purchase the meat/bone/organ packages only and add my own veggie mix every few days.

the usual quoted percents are: 60% raw meaty bones, 30% muscle meat, 5% organ meat, 5% veggies. Lots of people, however, have removed the veggie part completely and their dogs do fine.

Check the packages of pre-made raw carefully. An acceptable pre-made raw diet will have AT LEAST 13% protein wet matter basis / 40% protein on a dry matter basis, preferably more. A home-made raw diet following the above-quoted amounts will usually exceed 60% protein on a dry matter basis. Some places make formulas with ridiculous amounts of vegetation in them. Might as well feed cheap kibble instead.

Mudpuppy, I'm glad you responded. Help me decipher please if the Primal Pheasant and Duck raw formula's are good to feed or not.

I would love to try the Nature's Variety formula, but it contains sooo many ingredients.

I've also sent you a pm. But, I'd like to update my question in regards to feeding Nature's Variety instinct dry Rabbit formula and mix it with the Primal pheasant/duck raw formulas....would this be a good basis for a 9mnth old Golden/Toller 55# dog??

I can't get a hold of enough raw meat sources that are affordable for the amount he needs to eat. He can't have chicken which is the most affordable, easiest one.

Where are you located?  http://eatwild.com is a great place to start to find farm fresh foods even for suburban/urban dwellers.  Sometimes if you call around you might be surprised.  Sometimes if someone calls who is not very close, I'll know of someone much closer who isn't advertising, but I know is getting rid of some stock. 

The price, once you've invested in a freezer, is very favorable compared to the premades.  But you can also use fresh local meat to supplement your premade.  And there's nothing that can beat local, pasture raised beef, pork, lamb, and goat for you and your own human family, too!  It's wonderful to just throw something in the oven or crockpot for dinner - something's always in the freezer.  People tell me, "Your dogs eat as good as your family!"  I say, "No, my family eats as good as my dogs, now!"

If the food industry made kibble for humans... Do you think if the cost and taste was right and it gave you perfect weight control it would sell ?

If the food and population crisis the world faces continues it might come to that. We would then be arguing about which brand of human kibble or if lucky enough to obtain real food whether getting off a kibble diet might lead to malnutrition because it wasn't complete.

In reality the dog is IMHO best described as an opportunistic omnivore ...So the dog is a lot like us. He is no longer a wolf. He has evolved to be able to eat a variety of foods. Just like his owner. Now that's not to say he does not do better if fed more meat. But we humans in wealthier countries that supply meat also are better off than poorer countries that may eat just grains.

So to get back to cost benefits I would think if one can find a "Healthy Kibble" to feed that uses quality ingredients that is the most cost effective. The only problem today is trust. There are very few Pet Food Companies you can trust anymore... note recalls. So that is why I would buy kibble from a company that proves it's transparent and from bag to bag keeps the quality up

Having a dog, or cat , should be fun ... Having to worry about cooking or raw feeding would take a lot of fun from dog ownership in my case. But I can see that for some people feeding raw is what makes having a dog fun.

Primal pheasant is 15% vegetables. Nature's variety is 5% vegetables. Primal doesn't actually seem to have an ingredient list, do they? I suspect if they did it would look like it has just as many ingredients as nature's variety.

Having a dog, or cat , should be fun ... Having to worry about cooking or raw feeding would take a lot of fun from dog ownership in my case. But I can see that for some people feeding raw is what makes having a dog fun.

and you don't go around worrying that that bag of kibble isn't going to take years off your dog's life?  I've seen too many kibble-fed dogs that start looking and acting ancient by age 7 and too many teenaged fresh-meat-fed dogs who look and act like puppies to believe that a kibble-only diet is good for a dog, regardless of what brand it is.

I don't worry about cooking or feeding raw, I just do it. Did some research, got some recipes. It's not hard, it's not much more work than buying kibble and scooping it out. And the joy you see in your dog's eyes when he is actually given real food, instead of boring dry lumps, definitely adds to the fun of pet ownership.

Mudpuppy--

Primal does have their ingredient list on their website-----Here's the pheasant:

INGREDIENTS:
Pheasant, Pheasant Necks, Pheasant Hearts, Pheasant Livers, Organic Celery, Organic Mustard Greens, Organic Squash, Sunflower Sprouts, Organic Cranberries, Blueberries, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Almonds, Organic Cilantro, Organic Ginger, Organic Coconut Oil, Sardine Oil, Organic Alfalfa, Spirulina, Organic Rosemary, Mixed Tocopherols (Source of Vitamin E), Organic Grapefruit Seed Extract.

The duck:

INGREDIENTS:
Duck, Duck Necks, Duck Wings, Organic Kale, Duck Hearts, Organic Carrots, Organic Yams, Duck Livers, Organic Broccoli, Organic Apples, Blueberries, Organic Cranberries, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Organic Parsley, Organic Coconut Oil, Organic Kelp, Organic Alfalfa, Salmon Oil, Organic Garlic, Mixed Tocopherols (Source of Vitamin E), Organic Grapefruit Seed Extract.

So, roughly the same amount of ingredients as NV.

My guy eats both, but stools are better on the NV----less vegetable matter works best for him.

Thank you Tzu Mom...I meant to say that Primal doesn't have eggs in these two formulas or sage....I have one dog highly allergic to sage.

Does it seem that I'm getting my money's worth with the Primal, or could I do better with something else??