Greatest nutritional diet per cost...........

well, vet bills are sometimes unavoidable even if you feed the perfect diet. That said, I estimate I've saved thousands just from feeding raw meaty bones- never had to have any dental work done on any dogs.

I've had ONE dog who needed dental work.....oye!  That was enough.  That was more than 10 years ago and still cost over $1000!  So, yep, raw meaty bones are wonderful!  My dogs teeth are as clean as they were when they first came in.  And I check them regularly, as well as the gums, to be certain they are in tip top condition.

My dogs don't go to the vet.  Once a year they go in for their annual check up, heartworm draw and whatever other blood is appropriate for their age, etc.  I very much like to have  baseline bloodwork for all my dogs, and this is typically done when they are altered.  Then every year or so bloodwork is done just as a "progress report".  Now, of course if someone were sick or injured, I'd not hesitate, but, we flat do not have any illness, and I really do attribute that to their diet.

The three foods in my rotation at the moment are Canidae, Innova and Blue.  That's the morning meal.  Evenings is homecooked.  I don't trust ANY food, including what I make myself, to be totally perfect.  As good as I *think* those three kibbles are, they are still kibble, they are still processed and they are still not made in my own kitchen.  And, then again, who is to say that what I make in my own kitchen, with ingredients, while fresh, that come from the grocery store part of the year. is nutritionally complete?  Our soil is depleted and farms have, in good part, become factories, with stuff I don't want to eat used, and stuff I certainly don't want to feed my dogs.  But, unless you happen to live somewhere with a 12 month growing season, local fresh isn't always available.

Now that I've muddied the waters for you.......my dogs are healthy.  My dogs don't need frontline or any other flea preventative.  I get ticks walking in the woods, they don't.  I get bit by the sand fleas....they don't.  I honestly attribute that to an excellent diet.  I can't PROVE that, but I do believe it.

When Crusher was a pup, he was not the picture of health. He had allergies out the wazoo(literally), and was in and out of the vet.  I'd say inside of 6 months I spent a good $1000 on him there.   At that point I started researching things that would help to firm up his stool.  That led to nutrition.  And we've never looked back.  He's been to the vet since for his neuter and for one checkup.  He's almost 3.  Now this could be coincedence, I can't prove otherwise.  But like Glenda, I chalk it up to the good food he eats.  I currently feed Acana and raw.  He's also had Innova, Canidae, and Eagle Pack Holistic as well as homecooked. 

I'd say for dental purposes, a good RMB or rec bone once or twice a week is worth its weight in gold. 

Thanks for the input.

Keep it coming. Glenmar, I've seem to have lost the homecooked recipe you pm me, could you send it again please.

Also, those that are doing homecooked as only a part of the diet, are you adding calcium to your homecooked portion?

These guys are getting beef knuckle bones, in fact, I'm surrounded by 5 of them right now...they nibble on them a few times a day, I buy 3 small ones and one big one, the big guy breaks them up into smaller hunks.

My chihuahua and the new guy have very clean teeth....I hope it stays that way!

Natura's  HEALTHWISE  IMHO if your dogs try it and it agrees with them it is a wonderful bargain for a quality food with the best quality of ingredients sourced . Imagine buying a all life stages food for $ 1.00 a pound that has 27 per cent protein and only 34 per cent carbs.(Lamb Meal) It is made in a New state of the art Plant also that is Owned and operated by Natura.

Only problem is you have to ask your Natura (Innova Dealer to get it for you and may have to wait a few days)

As far as Vet Bills.... a lot is luck and genetics.

stanton

Or, cost per greatest nutritional value, meaning likely less vet health care expenses, would we be better off (discussions aside regarding making sure it's a balanced diet, we know this is very important) feeding him more naturally, i.e. quality of foods that we eat/purchase for ourselves?

I understand the question has an obvious answer....but I would like to hear from others regarding what they've felt to be their best approach, and what has worked best for them.

Main reason for my asking this, is I don't rightly care to raise this dog on foods that are overly processed as a basis to his diet, and yes, I've thought about one meal being homecooked, the other dry food, but is this going to make the difference in his overall health much later down the road versus a complete fresh diet of human quality meats/veggies.

     This is basically the same question I've been asking myself for the past several years, and tho I haven't quite completely figured it out yet, I'm getting closer to an answer every day ... This has been my experience, after many years of trial and error trying to find the best possible diet that would not cost me a small fortune but would also keep the dogs in *optimal* health, not simply passable health. That has always been the goal ... the best long term results at a manageable price. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean I haven't used expensive brands in my search - on the contrary I've used some of the costliest kibbled diets on the market, such as a now definct Best In Show, which was similar in formulation to Innova and double the price. Also have used Timberwolf Organic, Chicken Soup, Eukanuba, Royal Canin, Evolve, Back To Basics, etc. Have fed cheaper and moderately priced diets such as Pedigree, Purina One/Pro Plan/Dog Chow, Pro Pac, Blackwood. For about 3 straight years I fed an all raw diet going from BARF to a more meat based, grain/veggie free prey model type diet. Also cooked for them for a few months & will never go down that route again, lol.

     Most of the afformentioned brands were grabage, with the exception of a few that I've used on/off over the past few years. I have found that there is NO obvious answer to the question of what types of food are best regarding kibbled, cooked, raw. It's all about your dog. Raw, IMHO, is highly overrated. Albeit, I still feed between 30-40% raw (usually, but not always, sometimes the number is lower), as I've found the best route to optimal health is by incorporating raw foods and a good kibble. It's more difficult than you might realize to balance a dog's diet year after year, and you can bet those slight nutritional deficiencies add up to gaping holes. Not to mention the bacteria ... a little is ok, but day after day, I was finding these supposedly wonderful fresh whole foods so good for humans were not so good for the dogs. That's the main point you need to consider when formulating a dog's diet. They are carniverous scavengers, not humans, and the rules that apply to us do not apply to them. Raw foods are more bioavailable, contain enzymes, undamaged amino acids, but a $*** load of bacteria that can and will overload the system of a succeptable dog. 

     When choosing a food, disregard WDJ, and similar food reviewers caliming certain diets are "5 star", etc. They do not test these feeds, nor could they care less about the vitamin premix. Pound per pound, my dogs have thrived on none other than Purina ONE L&R. I've been feeding this on/off since 2003. I judge a diet not only by how it maintains healthy dogs, but by the condition of the unhealthy or undernourished dogs eating it - how puppies grow on it ..... It's cost effective @ $32 for 37.5lbs, and my dogs eat half of what they've eaten on some 5 star calorie dense foods. They are in near perfect condition, old, young, middle aged are doing well on the mix of this particular kibble plus raw. It does lower Vet bills, but keep in mind, no diet will eliminate them. Dogs will still get old, get genetic health problems, and Vet bills will be unaviodable. Some dogs are prone to ear or eye infections, and no diet can cure this, only help it along, keep it from getting out of control.

     That's my 2 cents worth. This feeding program HAS saved me on Vet bills, and my dogs are definitely better off in regards to health than many other dogs of their breed/age. I feed lots of "extras", as well - yogurt, egg yolks, leftovers, specialized vitamins for brood bitches. I do try to heal them with diet before anything else, and this is the best way to achieve the optimum health and cost effectiveness for my own dogs ... 
    

long-term nutritional studies are difficult to perform, but they have done some on humans- and universally they find that good nutrition comes from eating a wide variety of fresh, species-appropriate foods. If you want to feed kibble, it's probably healthier to feed a wide variety of different kibbles, and to supplement the diet with lots of fresh extras. Both humans and dogs seem to do better if fed limited amounts of carbohydrates; humans of course require large amounts of fruits and veg, but dogs don't seem to have any need to eat fruits/veg and in fact have difficulty digesting such foods. A completely raw diet may be hard to balance unless you can obtain and feed whole-prey.

Thing is, and I'll be honest about this. There is honestly only one dog food manufactoror that I down-right trust, that's Naturapet.

Thing of it is, they don't have much variety if you really think about it.....all of their formulas, minus one, are either chicken/turkey or lamb, AND they are somewhat high in carb's.

They do have the EVO diet in the beef formula, but have been recommended to stay away from that with a young dog.

There are some canned foods that I believe to be of good quality, but with a 55# dog, you can imagine what that would cost, longterm.

I don't mind feeding kibble say once or twice a week, but I honestly believe the ingredients in the kibble, although most are excellent foods, are just way overprocessed, ruining the true nutritional value.

Believe me, I also understand our veggies, etc are not as nutritious as they used to be, but at least they are not pressurized and cooked to oblivion.

I've put a lot of thought into whether I prefer to cook their meat or feed it raw, I got to say, that with all the depleted health of the animals that provide OUR meat sources, I don't know if I care to feed totally raw meats.

I have several k9 nutritional books, one of them suggests to boil whole meat in boiling water for 20-30 seconds to kill a lot of surface bacteria, perhaps this is what I'll do with such things as beef hearts, eggs, etc....for the turkey, I'll probably cook that all the way through.

I can get my hands on Elk, Bison, Duck, of which I will cook thoroughly too.

Chicken will be very limited in their diet, as the big one is allergic to it, and they've had more then their fair share of chicken in the last few years.

My gang is not food picky by any means, so that readily helps.

In 3 of the books I have, they all highly recommend adding a mixture of Nutritional yeast, Kelp, Lecithin Granules, and the correct amount of calcium for variety of good vitamins/minerals/enzymes. This is definitely something I have no problems with adding into their food.

I do like how most of the books I have suggest that if you do feed grains, feed it separate from the meat, as the individual meals will be better processed.

Again, I'm not completely against feeding kibble entirely, but I do have to say, that my 3 little dogs have already been on a combination of homecooked and kibble for a number of years, and while I've seen some improvements, one of the pomeranians still has the hair from he$$, if you know what I mean, one of the other dogs still eats the others dog poop, and I believe they all poop too much.

All of this with having been on either Cal Natural, Innova, EVO, TOTW, Merrick's can food for one meal, and other nutritional human goodies, i.e. salmon, eggs, fruits, veggies (broken down for them to absorb, by lightly steaming), cooked chicken, turkey, beef, etc.

The carb's, in the form of either oats, millet, brown rice, quinoa, etc would be to a minimum, perhaps once/twice a week.

Yogurt, eggs, veggies, fruits, raw honey, meats, etc would be their staples.

I do highly understand genetics plays a big role, as does luck. But I can't help resorting back to just a few years when my Grandma and I had this same conversation, granted nutrients were much more widespread in the sources of food back in her day, but I've seen that woman raise animals from the living dead to rambunctious health in a matter of weeks through nothing more then good homecookin.

I just don't believe that the route I've been taking, i.e. kibble and homecooked is working as well as I think it should be. Granted my dogs are very rarely ever ill, except their twice around battle of kennel cough of few months ago, which, in my mind, IF their bodies in fact were truly benefiting from kibble/homecooked, they should not have gotten it twice in a matter of weeks.

Everything else in their environment couldn't be better, we live in the open country, we live in an area where fleas don't exist, they are not exposed to harsh chemicals, never boarded, spoiled rotten, etc.

I just feel something MORE is needed, I will also start adding a digestive enzyme to their diets, as well as some raw honey for digestion purposes.

Keep the thoughts coming....I thoroughly enjoy reading others experiences.  

Shoot me an email, or email me your email addy...easier to send the recipe via email and not PM.

I can't completely agree with genetics being stronger than diet.    Thor and Sheba are totally unrelated.  Shadow, obviously, is related to both of them.  Thunder, is from different parents, Tyler and Theo share parents.  All of mine are robustly healthy.  They were NOT robustly healthy when I was feeding Purina, and the poop was HUGE.  My cockers had horrific ear and skin problems eating Purina.....better food eliminated those issues.

I can't completely agree with genetics being stronger than diet. 

me neither. Think of the study of hip dysplasia in labs- of course they had to have the predisposition, but diet sure made a dramatic difference in the outcome.  People strongly genetically predisposed to developing heart disease or diabetes can often ward these things off by careful diet management.

as to comments about not-getting-infectious diseases if the diet is perfect, well, I don't believe that one. You get exposed to the virus, you get sick. How fast you recover and how sick you get may be influenced by the state of health you are in, which is affected by diet, of course.

You can't stop life from happening.....  Example my Lab at the age of 3 gets tripped up on someones Flexi- Leash and the fastest, most athletic dog I have ever seen tears her ACL and needs TPLO surgery.. Arthritis years later, and very bad.  Things happen..to good people and dogs.

You will never be able to control life. The diet is helpful and you are trying  , but exercise and love , as well as diet will give you a chance.

As far as foods being over-processed, modern dog was a scavenger hanging around human dump sites. A healthy dog can eat just about anything. Less being better because most health issues in man and dog are from excess eating.

Keep learning and searching. And may the Gods be on your side.

what was your lab eating?   I've seen studies showing dogs that eat "normal" protein levels found in kibbles (i.e. between 20 and 26%) were much more likely to suffer ligament injuries than dogs that eat diets with 30% or more protein.

The biggest concern with highly processed foods is that they are really devoid of omega-3 fatty acids, and dogs who eat insufficient amounts of omega-3 fatty acids are prone to all sorts of things, including arthritis.

mudpuppy

You get exposed to the virus, you get sick

No way. That's what your immune system is for. To kill off germs BEFORE you get sick. And the state of your immune system, or how good it is at fighting off germs and keeping you from getting sick, is certainly related to your lifestyle, what you eat, how healthy you are, etc. If you got sick every single time you were exposed to a virus, you'd be sick CONSTANTLY. Viruses are everywhere.