Timberwolf Feeders

I have the same thoughts! I really don't feel as comfortable feeding this food now as I have in the past. I was not to happy with the price increases, but since my dogs have done so well on it, thought I'll keep in my rotation. Something is not sitting right with me on the ethics of this company, and the new lower quality ingredients seem more in line with TOTW, which is at a much lower price. I was even thinking of being a distributor of this food to sell out of my kennel, but really won't be considering that now.

It's too bad that the response from the company doesn't address the changes, only says they were already like that, you just didn't know because of another companies mistake.  That's all well and great, but it seems like people aren't happy with the changes.  Maybe they would not be selling well if people actually knew what they were buying.  When all the recall stuff was going on, people were very anxious about "egg product" or potato product".  It seems whenever there is an issue with this company they point fingers elsewhere. 

Joe Carey TWO

Chicken fat will not trigger an allergic reaction in dogs or any animals that is allergic to chicken.  The antigen that is associated with chicken allergies is only found in the protein portion of the chicken, i.e. chicken meat and meal.  It is not in the fat, and chicken fat is probably the best single source of the correct ratio of omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids available.

So wait a minute. Are you GUARANTEEING that there is NEVER one SPECK of protein in the chicken fat you use? For a dog that is severely (I'm talking anaphylactic-response allergic) to chicken, even a teeny tiny bit of chicken protein could trigger a potentially deadly allergic reaction. My dog doesn't have food allergies (or at least not severe ones), and if she did I wouldn't use ANY commercial food, but it's completely ridiculous and totally false to say that your chicken fat could not possibly cause an allergic reaction in a chicken-allergic dog.

Joe Carey TWO

 I am cross posting this to a few forums.  If you do see a forum that I did not get to please direct them here or please let me know so I can address this.

Due to some concerns of a possible formula 'change' in Timberwolf Organics we'd like to set the record straight.  The ingredient list on our website has always reflected the food in our bags.  Some online retailers that carry our food do not necessarily update their listing to reflect what we have on our website.  The food we produce has not changed.

With our older packaging there was some compliance issues with some descriptors of the ingredients.  For example 'low ash salmon meal'.  Low Ash can not be defined under AAFCO guidelines so even though the salmon meal that we use is exactly the same as before we must remove the low ash portion of the ingredient listed.  

This is a similar case with the dried potato product, dried egg product and a few other ingredients.  Since the recent boom in natural and holistic ingredients and dog foods there has been a lag in definitions available through AAFCO.  AAFCO defines a potato or egg being used in a food as a dried potato product or a dried egg product.  There has been no change in supply or quality in any of our foods.  We have been merely updating to the 'correct' definition under AAFO guidelines.

As for the chicken fat in the Ocean Blue and the Dakota Bison it has always in all of our formulations.  Do to an oversight when we switched bag manufacturers a few years ago it was left off the ingredient list and wasn't discovered until we switched to the new bag manufacturer and started to review the label.  We apologize for any perceived deceit as there was none intended.

Chicken fat will not trigger an allergic reaction in dogs or any animals that is allergic to chicken.  The antigen that is associated with chicken allergies is only found in the protein portion of the chicken, i.e. chicken meat and meal.  It is not in the fat, and chicken fat is probably the best single source of the correct ratio of omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids available.

For the rumors of financial problems or other issue are not true.  We have recently moved into a new office high rise in downtown Orlando and sales of Timberwolf have been spectacular.  We are in no danger of going out of business or selling out to a faceless corporation (who we hear are the ones spreading the rumors - some companies cannot compete on quality and so must use more devious means to try to create a competitive advantage).  We will continue to make, in our opinion, the best food on the market.

If you wish to change to another food over this issue there is probably nothing that we can do to to change your mind.  Thank you for the time that you did use the food and we hope in the future that you try us again.  For those of you on the fence as your experience please ask yourself: Has your experience with our foods been positive?  Like I said earlier the formulas have been the same and have not changed in over two years.  The formulas are excellent food that have changed the lives of thousands of dogs for the better, hopefully many of your own dogs.  If your dog has enjoyed the food we hope you continue with us.

We soon will have the most compliant bags in the industry and many other manufacturers will be going through the same procedure as us in the future with the greater scrutiny by AAFCO.  We will be having more information coming soon regarding the new bags.  If you have any other questions please email at customer.support@timberwolforganics.com

Thank you,
Joseph Carey
Timberwolf Customer Service

I love how this answer not only DOESN'T answer any of the concerns, it's a complete run-around that TWO always gives.  Good job.
 

papillon806

I also wanted to add that it makes me furious that you are basically trying to say that the ingredients were always what they are listed as now, they just had to "clarify them per AAFCO specs." Ok....are you kidding me? Are you saying that chicken fat was always in there you just conveniently didn't feel the need to put it on the label?

Also, I had thought about using the lamb and apples a little, until the "ingredient change" or "ingredient clarification" went from:

"Old": Lamb meal, brown rice, salmon meal....

to:

"New": Lamb, brown rice, salmon meal....

...umm, there's quite a difference between having lamb meal listed first vs. lamb. If that's how it always was but you decided to list it differently in the past, that makes me sick. Even the larger companies (SD, Euk, etc) aren't that stupid...they AT LEAST change the packaging or write "new and improved" or something on the bag to alert customers of a change!

Also, funny you mentioned that you are now in some swanky "high rise building in Florida." Glad to know your profits have given you that....clearly your ingredients aren't costing you too much.

Remind me NEVER to get into a confrontation with you, my dear.

lol Rebecca!  Sorry, this is just so infuriating I don't even know what to think!!

 I am cross-posting this from another forum, but I feel it is beautifully stated!

 This is an email that another person just sent TWO regarding their thoughts on the matter:

"We have recently found out that you've changed your ingredients, and not for the better. We've read your heap of lies on the Dogster food forums. To say that the formulas have not changed, just AAFCO is making you rename ingredients is the most disingenuous pile of crap we've ever seen. What were you calling tomato pumace before? There's nothing that says, "Tomato extract a la king, or ketchup expeller souflee." What were you calling brewer's yeast and beets before? And sodium selenite was not mislabeled as selenium proteinate. They are two different compounds that only a liar or a brain dead idiot would be able to confuse. Your statement that you have six months to change your bags is also a crock. If the formulas have been in use for two years, as your company has said to other consumers, then you should have changed those labels two years ago. Is your bag manufacturer located on Jupiter? That would explain a few things. We know it takes radio signals a while to get there from earth. In addition, we looked at your ingredients list a couple months ago and it was still the old recipe so your contention that your website has always been updated is also a lie. We told the store we USED to buy your product from about all this (we are the reason they are selling it in the first place). They are going to look into this matter themselves, but will most likely discontinue selling your products. Whether your explanation is true (only a true moron would believe it) or not, they have gotten lousy service from you, and you never informed them about these changes/mislabeling/insert lie here.

Oh, and here's a tip; changing to cheaper ingredients while raising your prices is not good for business, at least from the consumer's point of view.

Do us a favor, don't bother replying to this. We don't need another pile of excrement. We make enough of that ourselves. We trusted you, and put faith in your products. That trust is gone, and we are switching to a new food, as are a lot of dogs we know.

Hope you enjoy your shiny new downtown Orlando office, and thanks for putting our health at risk with your deception. We really appreciate it. "

I love it! lol 

Solid gold did a similar thing to barking at the moon, did you notice? it's original ingredient list was pretty impressive, then they changed it. It's actually got potato protein in it, even worse than "dried potato product". 

I've had a big problem with this company's ethics for a long time and at this point I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Not to mention that with the addition of brewer's yeast I couldn't feed it anyway. But such poor quality control to not even know an ingredient was in their food for quite some time without even noticing... That inspires A LOT of confidence.

mudpuppy

Solid gold did a similar thing to barking at the moon, did you notice?

no I hadn't and I am going to have to figure out a purely home-assembled formula for Bugs - I simply cannot risk these sort of things with him because of the severity of his allergies. I honestly feel worse than when all the recalls were happening. Not reasonable I suppose but goodness how can you seriously alter formulas and not reflect that anywhere

 I was suggested by a friend that people who purchase TWO regularly (or if you have been purchasing it recently) should start a class-action lawsuit against the company for fraud.  I am looking into more details about this, but I think people should be refunded for their purchases when being lied to basically.  I will report after consulting w/ a lawyer friend.   PM me if you are interested in participating if I can get everything sorted out.  I won't be able to participate since I haven't purchased their food anytime recently, so I need ppl!

 You all know that Chris Porch left Timberwolf, right?

First Carol and now Chris.

Why are they not able to hold onto employees?  

Even though I'm pretty sure Ella isn't allergic to anything that is in the food, what the hell if she was???

OH MAN.  If I found that a company had changed their formula AFTER FEEDING IT FOR SEVERAL MONTHS, and I had an allergy dog, WOW.  I'd be doing what I could.
Because these companies ARE responsible for their ingredients.  They have a responsibility to the customers who live off of their foods.  And it IS their responsibility to let customers know of ANY AND ALL ingredient changes.

This is BS.

Ella's on Orijen Fish as of tonight until I find another food. 

*EDITED - PERSONAL ATTACK* Reading your posts on this thread has really made my stomach churn. *EDITED - PERSONAL ATTACK* And now you're mentioning a law suit... Do you want to add to the"lets sue everything that breathes" brigade?

 And you dont even feed this food! The best thing people can do that arent happy about this is change foods,pure and simple.A law suit would likely get laughed out of court.

And as for that silly e-mail re-posted above,if that were sent to me i wouldnt reply either way,i would be looking for the morons parents and ask that they give their child a good smack on the bum! Because that's how it comes across,a juvenile,sarcastic,uneducated rant :(

I just, well, I don't want to start any trouble or get involved in any trouble with other members here, and I know you were not addressing me, but I just want you to know, Edie, that Papillon is an educated canine nutritionist.

She kind of knows what she's talking about when it comes to ingredients and she's surely been here long enough to see the ups (if you want to call them that) and downs of the news about this company.  She's been here since probably the first time this company came out with something shady.  And someone in her profession (who has just been freshly educated on very subject) is, OF COURSE, going to care a heck of a lot more about OUR pets than some food company that is looking to make money.

I'm just sayin'... 

Edie

*EDITED - PERSONAL ATTACK* Reading your posts on this thread has really made my stomach churn. *EDITED - PERSONAL ATTACK* And now you're mentioning a law suit... Do you want to add to the"lets sue everything that breathes" brigade?

 And you dont even feed this food! The best thing people can do that arent happy about this is change foods,pure and simple.A law suit would likely get laughed out of court.

And as for that silly e-mail re-posted above,if that were sent to me i wouldnt reply either way,i would be looking for the morons parents and ask that they give their child a good smack on the bum! Because that's how it comes across,a juvenile,sarcastic,uneducated rant :(

 

*Content Edited - Personal Attack* 

 Your post is amusingly hypocritical.

However, regarding the subject at hand....

I don't think a lawsuit is out of the question at all...it's plain and simple fraud.  And I find it interesting that you think it will be "laughed out of court" because I am getting the exact opposite responses from attorneys.  With the recent pet food recall causing such tighter controls on the pet food industry, it is a very valid problem with cause for concern.   I am so sorry that you feel that what TWO did was perfectly OK; clearly you are the only person that feels this way...if you would like to feed it, then go right ahead!  However, if this happened to a company like Science Diet or Eukanuba, I believe you would be singing a different tune.