Timberwolf Feeders

While we're at it...OLD Black Forest Formula:

 Venison, Whole Ground Brown Rice, Lamb, Whole Ground Millet, Lamb Meal, Venison Meal, Whole Ground Barley, Low Ash Salmon Meal, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Carrot, Watercress, Spinach, Celery, Parsley, Fennel Seed, Wild Salmon Oil, Unrefined Walnut Oil, Atlantic Kelp, Alfalfa Leaf, Blueberries, Glucosomine, Potassium Chloride, Cranberries, Pears, Figs, Thyme, Anise Seed, Ground Cinnamon Bark, Fenugreek, Garlic Pieces, Sunflower Seeds, Apples, Chicory Root, Spirulina, Choline Chloride, Lecithin, Probiotics: (Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Lactis, Bacillus Bifidum, Streptococcus Diacetilactis, Bacillus Subtillus), Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), Lysine, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Thiamine, Methionine, Carnitine, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Iodine Proteinate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine (a source of vitamin B6), Copper Proteinate, Selenium Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract.

New: Venison, Ground Brown Rice, Lamb, Ground Millet, Ground Barley, Salmon Meal, Oat Groats, Venison Meal, Chicken Fat, Natural Flavors, Salmon Oil, Dried Apples, Dried Blueberries, Dried Cranberries, Dried Figs, Ground Thyme, Ground Anise Seed, Ground Cinnamon, Ground Fenugreek, Dried Garlic, Ground Sunflower Seeds, Ground Sesame Seeds, Dried Kelp, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Beets, Dried Parsley, Dried Lettuce, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach, Dried Tomato Pomace, Ground Flaxseed, Dried Chicory Root, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Lecithin, Taurine, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium thermophilum Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium longum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Choline Chloride, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin E Supplement, Manganese Amino acid Complex, Copper Amino acid Complex, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Cobalt Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Citric Acid, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Rosemary Extract.

See you later lamb meal....lets move the venison meal down further....and throw in some natural flavor.

I have to say... Labrador Dave and Sooner, if you hadn't pointed this out, I don't think I would have noticed. As far as PR and customer service go, this was a pretty bad move. I'm glad I'm not feeding TWO right now, and I probably won't go back to it since I seem to be getting equally good results from Innova EVO.

I don't post a lot but I wanted to make sure everybody was aware of the change.  I was completely taken back when I called and was told that the food out there in the market with bags listing the old ingredients was actually the new formula.  What about potential reactions to a sudden change?  Bugsy...earlier in the thread is allergic to eggs.  It's going to be over a month before we see the new bags saying just Timberwolf and the new ingredients listed.  Beyond listing the new ingredients on the website QUIETLY, it will be over a month before the entire website is changed to "market" the new formulas, update the FAQ which hasn't changed in 2 years and any other content.  I have not seen any adverse changes while unknowingly feeding the new formula.  I checked the bag I just finished and it's from the same lot so it's been well over a month at least.  They should be challenged on the 6 month excuse if AAFCO did away with that loophole as noted earlier in the thread.  I hope they come out to the forums and recognize that they need to address concerns immediately.  I've been a card carrying member of the loyal following TWO has established and extremely disappointed.  Poor planning, poor execution and poor decision making on TWO's part. 

kpwlee

So if I get a new ingredient bag thinking its the old formula he would have a severe reaction hives, throat closure etc.

Gosh if i had a dog like that i dont think i'de be using any commercial foods.You cant rely on anyone to give up to date changes the second they happen.It would be convenient,but i think highly unlikely.

Most people have unallergic dogs that wont drop dead or get extremely sick from a few ingredient changes in their food,so for those, these changes wont make any difference at all.Commercial food manufactures cant take responsibility for dogs with health issues IMO,that's up to the owners to do,especially life threatening issues.It's up to the owners to be on the ball. I realize,especially in this instance, it cant always be possible when manu's dont list their changes asap,but thats the risk you take if you want to feed commercial food to these dogs.

I dont know,this thread has just rubbed me up the wrong way,everything has to be nitpicked to the third degree and every single ingredient panel has to be posted and dissected etc etc etc. I'm really into my dogs nutrition,but sometimes food bashing,especially toward a super premium like TO can go a a little too far. We should be saving that for ol roy and beneful et al.

I am also a loyal customer of Timberwolf's,and unless they completely change their formula's to be on par with supermarket junk then little changes here or there arent going to affect my loyalty,We're talking dog food here,not feeding the boy in the bubble They owe me nothing!

>>> If any of the TWO reps who occasionally troll the boards<<<<

Dont you mean "trawl".I wouldnt have called their reps trolls. 

This is very disappointing.  I wonder if at least maybe their sky high calcium levels have gone down?

 may I crosspost this onto my pit bull forums?

A lot of TWO feeders there and this is quite disappointing to me.

I wonder if they are having financial troubles or something.  It seems out of character to downgrade ingredients.  There have been other wierd stuff, but not "quality" of ingredient issues.

I read a rumor online when I was looking into this that they had been using Diamond plants to manufacture their food, but then decided to change plants because of fears of quality control issues, but Diamond refused to return all the bags of theirs that they had and therefore TWO (now "TW" I guess, haha) lost a good bit of money. That was what I read as an explanation for the price increase. Beats me!

 I keep forgetting that they changed their name and dropped the "organics" part.

 Hell, new ingredients, new name, right?

So...from the posts I've read, correct me if I'm not getting this right, they are already making the new formulas and putting them in old bags with some claim that they can do this because they're allowed 6 months to change the listing on their bags????

Is that right?

I don't think Ella has issues with any of the new ingredients listed, but honestly, why would they downgrade their formulas?

I bet you're right, Cita.  Maybe not the exact story you read, but I bet they are having financial difficulties.  Or...at least, they're realizing people are buying their foods, and raising prices because they CAN just simply to make more money.

Nice.

ottoluv

I wonder if they are having financial troubles or something.  It seems out of character to downgrade ingredients.  There have been other wierd stuff, but not "quality" of ingredient issues.

     That could be ... I'm just so shocked that TWO of all companies would cheapen it's ingredients ... My mother has her older mix breed on the Black Forest formula as per my recommendation, and she was more than willing to keep this dog on the food when the price increased. She really can't afford it, but we both thought it was only a reflection of the fact they were making the food better. This dog had problems with pneumonia as a pup, and because of that has a poor immune system/allergies, so I'm quite concerned about the formula change. I'd never have expected it, but one thing I have to say is that TWO is certainly not the only company in recent weeks to lower the quality while upping the price.   

chewbecca

 may I crosspost this onto my pit bull forums?

 

A lot of TWO feeders there and this is quite disappointing to me.

I already did on PBF :) 

From another forum:

"Just called TWO. They confirmed that the ingredients on the website is correct. It IS what is in my bags of food. Even though the ingredients are listed differently on the bag. They are using up the old packaging. The ingredients on the old packaging is not whats in the bag.

I became so irritated with the man I spoke with I cut the conversation short. He was talking in circles, he knew nothing about the formulas. He told me that the formula had not changed, but that they had to list the ingredients different per AFCO. I then asked him what was the name of Brewers Yeast and chicken fat, citric acid, rosemary extract etc in the previous formula. He couldn't tell me."

So they are using new ingredients in bags w/ the old ingredients listed? Wow...just wow.

papillon806

chewbecca

 may I crosspost this onto my pit bull forums?

 

A lot of TWO feeders there and this is quite disappointing to me.

 

 

I already did on PBF :) 

Can you as well on pit bull corner?  Please? 

 I am cross posting this to a few forums.  If you do see a forum that I did not get to please direct them here or please let me know so I can address this.

Due to some concerns of a possible formula 'change' in Timberwolf Organics we'd like to set the record straight.  The ingredient list on our website has always reflected the food in our bags.  Some online retailers that carry our food do not necessarily update their listing to reflect what we have on our website.  The food we produce has not changed.

With our older packaging there was some compliance issues with some descriptors of the ingredients.  For example 'low ash salmon meal'.  Low Ash can not be defined under AAFCO guidelines so even though the salmon meal that we use is exactly the same as before we must remove the low ash portion of the ingredient listed.  

This is a similar case with the dried potato product, dried egg product and a few other ingredients.  Since the recent boom in natural and holistic ingredients and dog foods there has been a lag in definitions available through AAFCO.  AAFCO defines a potato or egg being used in a food as a dried potato product or a dried egg product.  There has been no change in supply or quality in any of our foods.  We have been merely updating to the 'correct' definition under AAFO guidelines.

As for the chicken fat in the Ocean Blue and the Dakota Bison it has always in all of our formulations.  Do to an oversight when we switched bag manufacturers a few years ago it was left off the ingredient list and wasn't discovered until we switched to the new bag manufacturer and started to review the label.  We apologize for any perceived deceit as there was none intended.

Chicken fat will not trigger an allergic reaction in dogs or any animals that is allergic to chicken.  The antigen that is associated with chicken allergies is only found in the protein portion of the chicken, i.e. chicken meat and meal.  It is not in the fat, and chicken fat is probably the best single source of the correct ratio of omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids available.

For the rumors of financial problems or other issue are not true.  We have recently moved into a new office high rise in downtown Orlando and sales of Timberwolf have been spectacular.  We are in no danger of going out of business or selling out to a faceless corporation (who we hear are the ones spreading the rumors - some companies cannot compete on quality and so must use more devious means to try to create a competitive advantage).  We will continue to make, in our opinion, the best food on the market.

If you wish to change to another food over this issue there is probably nothing that we can do to to change your mind.  Thank you for the time that you did use the food and we hope in the future that you try us again.  For those of you on the fence as your experience please ask yourself: Has your experience with our foods been positive?  Like I said earlier the formulas have been the same and have not changed in over two years.  The formulas are excellent food that have changed the lives of thousands of dogs for the better, hopefully many of your own dogs.  If your dog has enjoyed the food we hope you continue with us.

We soon will have the most compliant bags in the industry and many other manufacturers will be going through the same procedure as us in the future with the greater scrutiny by AAFCO.  We will be having more information coming soon regarding the new bags.  If you have any other questions please email at customer.support@timberwolforganics.com

Thank you,
Joseph Carey
Timberwolf Customer Service

Joe Carey TWO

As for the chicken fat in the Ocean Blue and the Dakota Bison it has always in all of our formulations.  Do to an oversight when we switched bag manufacturers a few years ago it was left off the ingredient list and wasn't discovered until we switched to the new bag manufacturer and started to review the label.

YEARS?!? Wow...