New Frontier Kibble

cc431

Quite a bit a talk about density, no numbers though?  How come?  We know Abady New Frontier weight 5 oz per cup.  Lets see some comparisons.  Links provided in the opening post clearly state 5.0 oz per cup.  Just curious as to all the talk about fuzzy math, voodoo economics and density yet no numbers? 

You want numbers? Let's see. 5 oz is about 142 grams. Which means, using your 591 calories per cup, there are about 4160 calories per kilogram of kibble. Innova adult has 4170 per kg. Innova Evo has 4240 per kg. Canidae ALS has 4180 per kg. How are those numbers working for you?

cc431

beth82

Having just read this entire thread with all it's fuzzy logic and fuzzier math, I just want to answer the question about Innova.  Its calorie count (per cup) is high because 1 cup of it weighs 159 grams - quite a bit more than most kibbles.  It's the density of the kibble that matters, along with the shape and size of the pieces (some shapes will allow more to fit in a cup than others will).  Kibble that's less puffed up with air and leaves less air between the pieces = more calories per cup. It has nothing to do with the ingredients. 

Quite a bit a talk about density, no numbers though?  How come?  We know Abady New Frontier weight 5 oz per cup.  Lets see some comparisons.  Links provided in the opening post clearly state 5.0 oz per cup.  Just curious as to all the talk about fuzzy math, voodoo economics and density yet no numbers? 

I was talking about Innova, not Abady. sarah_b wanted to know why a cup of Innova has 557 Kcal per cup, when it has only 24% protein.

So, if you want numbers -  according to the website, Innova has  4,168 kcal/kg and 1 cup is 159 g (5.6 oz).  4,168 x 0.159 = 662 kcal/cup, which is more than the 557 kcal/cup that they claim. None of this has anything to do with the percentage of protein, or of meat in the food.

Now,  4,168 kcal/kg is higher than your average kibble, and that probably has to do with the amount of calorie dense food in the recipe.  High calorie ingredients include meats, grains and fats/oils.

If 5 oz of Abady provides 591 calories, then it must have 4.16 kcal/g, which equals  4,160 kcal/kg - almost exactly the same as Innova, and similar to several other high quality foods.

ETA: Oops, I see chelsea_b beat me to it. 

chelsea_b

You want numbers? Let's see. 5 oz is about 142 grams. Which means, using your 591 calories per cup, there are about 4160 calories per kilogram of kibble. Innova adult has 4170 per kg. Innova Evo has 4240 per kg. Canidae ALS has 4180 per kg. How are those numbers working for you?

These numbers work much better:

quote: This is what this actually means: Abady’s New Frontier kibbled dog food contains 26% protein or 118 grams of protein per 454 grams (per pound) of product. Of 118 grams of protein contained in every pound of Abady’s New Frontier, 98 grams are derived from real chicken meal and whole dried egg, representing 83% of the protein in the ration.

Meanwhile, all your picks with the fresh chicken containing 75% moisture calculated as a solid (talk about voodoo math) translate into very little chicken, more like the essence of chicken.  Abady delivers 5.5 times more chicken protein regardless of all the number fudging one can dream up!

How many calories per kg on the kibble you are comparing?  When you get straight answers, in response I see apples to oranges, red herrings, straw men, but you avoid one-to-one comparisons like the plague.

That's what creeps me out about this product.  My dogs' health isn't worth word games and ring-around-the-rosy with the truth.

I'm watching Ted eat his dinner right now just laughing at this thread.  Steamed brown and wild rice with rolled oats and barley with portabella mushrooms (I fixed it for us and just made extra for the dogs), raw beef ribs and a couple of cups of Nature's Variety Instinct.  Why would I feed these guys lard and whatever ol' Robert thought might be good for them (now corn, now rice, now barley?) when it's so easy to feed them simply and well right from the pantry?

 

brookcove

How many calories per kg on the kibble you are comparing?  When you get straight answers, in response I see apples to oranges, red herrings, straw men, but you avoid one-to-one comparisons like the plague.

That's what creeps me out about this product.  My dogs' health isn't worth word games and ring-around-the-rosy with the truth.

I'm watching Ted eat his dinner right now just laughing at this thread.  Steamed brown and wild rice with rolled oats and barley with portabella mushrooms (I fixed it for us and just made extra for the dogs), raw beef ribs and a couple of cups of Nature's Variety Instinct.  Why would I feed these guys lard and whatever ol' Robert thought might be good for them (now corn, now rice, now barley?) when it's so easy to feed them simply and well right from the pantry?

Wow, talk about negative tones...no wonder threads turn ugly.  Why do people have to be so mean and negative, condescending in regards to another persons product?  Sorry, I'm not biting.  You folks can be negative to your hearts content.  I'll act like my normal self in a professional, civil, and well behaved gentleman as usual.

cc431

Meanwhile, all your picks with the fresh chicken containing 75% moisture calculated as a solid (talk about voodoo math) translate into very little chicken, more like the essence of chicken.  Abady delivers 5.5 times more chicken protein regardless of all the number fudging one can dream up!

The first three ingredients of Innova are turkey, chicken, and chicken meal. Evo is turkey, chicken, turkey meal, chicken meal. Canidae's first two ingredients are chicken meal and turkey meal. I'd rather see fresh meat than meat meal if I can be guaranteed there's not 1.01 pounds of water-inclusive meat to 1 pound of dry grains. The problem is it's impossible to tell just from the ingredients list what the ratio of ingredients is. Since there's two fresh meats and then a meat meal or two in Innova and Evo, that's good with me. Canidae has nothing to complain about. 

What's funny about this argument is I don't feed Innova, Evo, or Canidae. I feed Nature's Logic. Yeah, the one with a mile-long list of fruits and vegetables, but you look at your ingredients list with a mile of synthetic vitamin and mineral supplements and tell me THAT'S a natural carnivore diet. Oh, don't worry, I'm just SURE wolves regularly dine on chicken by-product meal with a side of white rice, a bit of corn, and 90 different man-made supplements.

The fact is canines are carnivores who eat a slightly omnivorous diet. No, that does not make them omnivores, nor does it mean they REQUIRE plant matter, but it IS a part of their natural diet.

Abady does NOT deliver 5.5 times more chicken than Nature's Logic. They say 5.5 times more than their closest competitors. Abady is not on the same level as Nature's Logic, nor Innova, Canidae, or Evo. Not even close. They're probably comparing themselves to Dog Chow and Pedigree. That seems fair to me, AND I believe the Abady kibble has 5.5 times more chicken protein than those foods.

Charlie, do you ever post anything on here other than trying to get people to buy Abady? Isn't it against forum rules to try to sell products on here? Because that's what it seems to me like you are doing. And you don't need to be so defensive about what you feed. You like it, others don't, that will never change and that's that. Move on!

chelsea_b

The fact is canines are carnivores who eat a slightly omnivorous diet. No, that does not make them omnivores, nor does it mean they REQUIRE plant matter, but it IS a part of their natural diet.

Abady does NOT deliver 5.5 times more chicken than Nature's Logic. They say 5.5 times more than their closest competitors. Abady is not on the same level as Nature's Logic, nor Innova, Canidae, or Evo. Not even close. They're probably comparing themselves to Dog Chow and Pedigree. That seems fair to me, AND I believe the Abady kibble has 5.5 times more chicken protein than those foods.

Just wondering if this stuff is part of their natural diet: Spray Dried Chicken Liver, Pumpkin Seed, Kelp, Natural Flavoring, Cottage Cheese, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Egg Shell Meal, Avocado, Chicory Root, Tomato Powder, Almonds, Spray Dried Cod Liver Oil, Apple Powder, Blueberry Powder, Apricot Powder, Carrot Powder, Pumpkin Powder, Cranberry Powder, Broccoli Powder, Spinach Powder, Parsley, Artichoke, Rosemary, ... NO THANK YOU !!! You're are 100% correct not on the same level at all.

Dog Chow and Pedigree you say, interesting.  I would guess the all your favorite picks are in the same carb percentage range, not New Frontier!

Careful with all that powder.

 Well, I can see exactly where this thread is going... (I know my comments aren't helping )

k_dawg

Charlie, do you ever post anything on here other than trying to get people to buy Abady? Isn't it against forum rules to try to sell products on here? Because that's what it seems to me like you are doing. And you don't need to be so defensive about what you feed. You like it, others don't, that will never change and that's that. Move on!

I just like to share with people what I feel is the absolute best feed in the world, but in all honesty I could care less what people chose to feed.  When I hear all the talk about EVO, Canadie, Nature's Variety, Natures Logic, Solid Gold, etc.,  I don't take it like they are try to sell me something.  Why do you take it that way?  Feeling a bit paranoid or just trying to falsely accuse me of something to get me in trouble with moderators and administrators?  Nice try but give those folks a bit more credit please.

OK, I'm out of here.  Thanks but I don't need to be ridiculed with the name calling nonsense, silly kindergarten comparisons to supermarket kibble and now spamming.  Posts like you folks have just demonstrating this evening confirms just LOCK the thread and don't even bother with the discussion or debate.  You folks will never change, always insisting to turn things negative.  I don't know why you all have to be like that, it is really sad.  You've convinced me all this place will never change.

Good bye.  It's been less than thrilling.

chelsea_b

cc431

Quite a bit a talk about density, no numbers though?  How come?  We know Abady New Frontier weight 5 oz per cup.  Lets see some comparisons.  Links provided in the opening post clearly state 5.0 oz per cup.  Just curious as to all the talk about fuzzy math, voodoo economics and density yet no numbers? 

You want numbers? Let's see. 5 oz is about 142 grams. Which means, using your 591 calories per cup, there are about 4160 calories per kilogram of kibble. Innova adult has 4170 per kg. Innova Evo has 4240 per kg. Canidae ALS has 4180 per kg. How are those numbers working for you?

cc431

Yes, Iggypop...legendary punk rocker.