New Frontier Kibble

So is the protein level supposed to be the selling point?  B/c EVO has min. 42% which is almost twice that of the Abady.  I read the article and the first sentence talks about it being a "carnivore" diet.  Then why are rice and barley the second and third ingredients?  And why is straight up salt on the ingredients list?  What is "whole dried egg" and why not just "egg"?  I'm confused....

Liesje

So is the protein level supposed to be the selling point?  B/c EVO has min. 42% which is almost twice that of the Abady.  I read the article and the first sentence talks about it being a "carnivore" diet.  Then why are rice and barley the second and third ingredients?  And why is straight up salt on the ingredients list?  What is "whole dried egg" and why not just "egg"?  I'm confused....

You should also note in your comparison, EVO is a lighter feed and puts out less in cals.  That should tell you something right there, EVO is  catchy marketing.  Proteins with a zero biological value to the dog need not be calculated in, to artificially boost those numbers making you think you have a powerful diet.  I am also confused about the ancestral diet thing meets the modern dog?  That is the justification given for delivering the omnivore buffet of ingredients?  EVO feeders are being cleverly deceived by marketing.  Look at the first four ingredients, each about 75% moisture.  Do the math, 300% moisture out of 400%.  What's leftover in solids (the actual meat minus the water content) is not all chicken protein (each ingredient represents about 12.5%).  The actual poultry protein out the first four ingredients is about 1/2 of just 1 ingredient (12.5x4).  Shortly after you're bombarded with the buffet.

How you achieve 591 per cup is done by actually delivering the chicken protein in quantity (5.5 X more than average kibbles), not with a lot of flash and window dressing in the front.  So 26% protein listed means over 80% of that is coming from meat (factoring out the moisture content).  Unlike a 42% feed where probably less than half is coming from meat sources.  Think about it, 42% protein is slightly less that 1/2 the bag.  If that 42% was based on meat protein (not the buffet) how much would it really cost?  $75 a bag and screaming at 900+ per cup would be more comparative.  It does not cost that much and delivers around 550.  Abady New Frontier I'm sure is a bit more pricey than EVO, reason being and the numbers show it simply delivers more.

I don't know if my dog can handle EVO, let alone even MORE Kcals.  I tried it on her last night so we'll see how it goes but a lot of German Shepherds just don't need food THAT rich.

As far as cost....if I was so concerned about protein and content, I'd simply feed raw and homecooked.  Why pay so much more for so much less?  It seems that people who are THAT concerned with dissecting every aspect of their dog's food would rather not feed a commercial kibble at all.

So 26% protein listed means over 80% of that is coming from meat

So that means the Abady is a little less than 21% meat protein.  Orijen is 70% protein from meat sources and their min. is 42% so that's a little over 29% meat protein.  So it has more protein, more meat sources, and no grains.  And it's not $75 a bag.
 

Liesje

Orijen is 70% protein from meat sources and their min. is 42% so that's a little over 29% meat protein.  So it has more protein, more meat sources, and no grains.  And it's not $75 a bag.

Oh, and you also get the Seaweed buffet in the 6 Fish!  I looked at the products I had to laugh.  They talk a carnivore theme in their literature and you can't help but scratch head reading the list.  The reg adult formula reads just like an omnivore diet....carrots, peas, sun-cured alpha, kelp, carrots, spinach, apples.  Seems like they are sure pulling the wool over a whole lot of eyes...no thanks.  Oh, Tonic Herbs....isn't that lovely.  I don't even want to venture to guess what this stuff is, "Enterococcus faecium fermentation".  I think it is a bacteria from dried poop?  Again, no thanks.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterococcus_faecium  Note it states a possible pathogen leading to disease.  Not even if it was free food....no way.

My point was that their food offers MORE protein from MEAT than Abady does, and I thought that was supposed to be Abady's selling point?  Plus I'd rather feed my dog carrots, peas, and apples than rice and barley.  If one firmly believes a domestic dog is a carnivore, then feed a carnivorous diet.  Abady is not a carnivorous diet.  I think domestic dogs are a combination of a carnivore and a scavenger, so that's how I feed them (same for my domestic cats).  If I believed they were carnivores, I'd raw feed meat, not a kibble with rice and barley.
 

cc431

 Seems like they are sure pulling the wool over a whole lot of eyes..

 
I don't think it's Orijen "tricking" us foolish consumers so much as it is that we follow a different philosophy for food than you do.

 
Maybe it's about time you gave us non-Abady feeding dog owners a little bit of credit: it's not that we don't know what we're feeding our dogs. We just happen to think what we are feeding them is a good diet.

Liesje

My point was that their food offers MORE protein from MEAT than Abady does, and I thought that was supposed to be Abady's selling point?  Plus I'd rather feed my dog carrots, peas, and apples than rice and barley.  If one firmly believes a domestic dog is a carnivore, then feed a carnivorous diet.  Abady is not a carnivorous diet.  I think domestic dogs are a combination of a carnivore and a scavenger, so that's how I feed them (same for my domestic cats).  If I believed they were carnivores, I'd raw feed meat, not a kibble with rice and barley. 

More meat protein than Abady....lol....not even in the same ballpark.  You can state Abady is not a carnivore feed and single out a couple ingredients, but then look at Oriijen with about a dozen fruits and veggies not to mention seaweed;  read their prophesy about a dogs being a carnivore, and fall for it hook, line and sinker!  That is so comical.  Abady IS the closest diet you can find for carnivores w/ out dealing with the raw.

cc431

More meat protein than Abady....lol....not even in the same ballpark. 

Simple math proves that wrong. 

I never said Orijen was a carnivore diet.  I've never feed it, don't intend to, and thus don't have any strong feelings about it one way or the other.  You can't say something is a more carnivorous diet just b/c it supposedly has more meat that another commercial kibble.  Commercial kibble is commercial kibble.  I don't think ANY of them are truly carnivorous diets b/c they ALL contain either grains, plants, or both. 

I just don't see any reason to feed Abady b/c for every specific thing that's supposed to be so great about it, there's another kibble or other form of diet that's better.  Unless it's the only premium kibble available, it doesn't fit any need, at least for me.

Chungwa

Maybe it's about time you gave us non-Abady feeding dog owners a little bit of credit: it's not that we don't know what we're feeding our dogs. We just happen to think what we are feeding them is a good diet.

I think Orijen is on the same par with Purina "Come and Get It".

Liesje

 I don't think ANY of them are truly carnivorous diets b/c they ALL contain either grains, plants, or both. 

Grain free is what you call a marketing scam.  If grain-matter doesn't dictate the ration, than another form of plant-matter (IE flaxseed) will take over and deliver the fiber.  It is clever marketing designed to deceive people.  It is called "gimmick" and many are fooled by gimmick style feeds.  There is nothing wrong for carnivores having a small amount of carb...SO LONG as it does not dictate and dominate in the ration.

You're preaching to the choir.  As I said before, I feed my dog a combination of kibbles and "raw" toppers (not just raw meat, but foods that I eat that are good for a dog, without being treated and stamped into kibble) and I feed her a huge variety of things b/c IMO dogs are carnivores and scavengers.  One of the kibbles I use also has rice just like Abady, no biggie.  I don't read ANY marketing materials for any kibble or dog diet, I simply try various things until I see the coat condition, clear eyes, muscle tone, lack of stink, and formed poops that I want.  I don't take ANYTHING that ANY website or for-profit company tells me as Truth.  I have no allegiance to any brand or company.  I don't trust for-profit companies to really have my dog's best interest at heart, so it's my responsibility to supplement the diet in whichever areas I see fit.  When the dog is in stellar physical and athletic condition, the diet, whatever it is, is working.

All I was saying is that 1) Abady is not a "carnivorous diet" and 2) it has less protein from meat than Orijen, going by the numbers on the site you posted.
 

cc431

You can state Abady is not a carnivore feed and single out a couple ingredients, but then look at Oriijen with about a dozen fruits and veggies not to mention seaweed

For example, look at a Timberwolf ingredient list. There is an herb mixture - something you might call an omnivore buffet - but the company has shared in the past that the herb mixture makes up 2% or less of the total ingredients. So there may be 15-20 non-carnivore ingredients, but the actual amount of any one of those in the formula is minuscule.

If you want to take Abady's word as gospel go right ahead, I don't doubt your results with the food. But don't fault those of us who choose to follow research, canine nutritionists, common sense and time proven results.

This is an honest question, as I would feel much better about Abady's theories knowing where they come from... What are Robert Abady's credentials? Did he label himself a genius or is there education to back that up? 

Liesje

Simple math proves that wrong. 

I disagree.  Deception with a numbers game that throws the math in The Twilight Zone.  Commercial kibbles advertising 42% protein and leading people to believe it is animal based protein is criminal.  You're smarter than that, don't be fooled by these clever marketing schemes.  Abady protein-core hands down is the strongest in the industry.

sooner

This is an honest question, as I would feel much better about Abady's theories knowing where they come from... What are Robert Abady's credentials? Did he label himself a genius or is there education to back that up? 

He is a biochemist.

Edited to add: Wikipedia; "A biochemist is a scientist trained and dedicated to producing results in the discipline of biochemistry. Typically biochemists study chemical processes and chemical transformations in living organisms. Biochemist study chemical processes and transformations in living organisms. Bio is in the word because it involves animals."