Prong Collar

Have you considered a premier easy walk harness?  They are no pulls and  extremely well made.

I'll be honest- I'd drop the class, and ask for my money back. And I *like* prong collars- I think they're perfectly appropriate for some dogs, just as buckle, martingale, and head halters are appropriate management tools for SOME dogs. Here's why.

1. The trainer tried to apply a 1-size solution to every dog in the class without tailoring it to each individual dog. This is never a good idea, whether the solution you're applying is a head halter, a prong, or a choke. All dogs are not the same. I definately don't think using a prong collar is incompatible with clicker in any way, but I don't think this guy sounds all that knowlegable in either one.

2. He's using BS phrases like 'energy up' (unless you're misquoting) which, to me, implies he has NO clue what he's doing. If you're going to use a collar correction to improve automatic sits, call it what it is. It's a valid way to improve speed on autosits, but it's not one that's going to endear you to many dogs, and it probably will not work as well with sensitive breeds like sighthounds.

3. He's moving way ahead of himself- unless this is a novice polish type class geared towards preparing you for competition, why are you working on heeling rather than getting the attention issues under control FIRST? And if it IS a novice polish class, why'd he put you in it?

Sounds like good advice in regards to the force collar and retractables.  Like I said, I have neither (prong or force) but the 'force' has been in the back of my mind.  My thinking was she would learn herself when close to the end of the line and know time to slow it down.  But then again, she's not necessarily looking back at me to see my position to be able to judge the 17'.  That could be different on every occasion, but maybe it could teach her to pay closer attention to where I am positioned?
 
The retractable does come with a brake and a lock.  I can set it for any distance up to 17'.  We pretty much just use a leash around the yard when nature calls.  She has a nice runner cable for outside and if were going to be outside for a length of time I'll go with the e-collar instead.  I like to give my dog mobility to range.
 

ORIGINAL: cc431
My thinking was she would learn herself when close to the end of the line and know time to slow it down. But then again, she's not necessarily looking back at me to see my position to be able to judge the 17'. That could be different on every occasion, but maybe it could teach her to pay closer attention to where I am positioned?

I use all or part of a 6' leash in town, and a 30' dragline on hikes/in fields. The drag line isn't as convenient as a retractable, but it gives less pressure to the collar. I hope to be able to use the retractable again someday, because I paid so much $ for it!

I've been training Ixa to learn when she's near the end of her leash/line by gently singing "eeeaasy" when she gets near it. If she turns and looks, or slows down to adjust, we keep walking. If she hits the end of it, she gets and "uhn uhn" and I stop. With consistent use, I've been saying "easy" and stopping a lot less now.

I'd like Ixa to "know where I am" too, but will train specifically for that unless it magically becomes a by-product of our walking relationship. Of course, I don't actually *know how* to train for that, yet!

I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again but one of the best things I ever bought for my dogs was a 1 foot tab leash. When I got Marlowe he did not know how to walk on a leash. He was all over the place, and he full-on lunged at every squirrel he saw (which is a LOT where I live!). Moving him to a body harness and a 1 foot leash for his initial training was something I just felt in my gut I should do and I was not wrong. A lot of dog learning is just habit. Marlowe got in the habit of being very close to me while walking and maintaining a more or less fixed position at my side (he had no other option on such a short leash), I rewarded him out the wazoo for it too, and he has maintained that habit even after being moved to a regular buckle collar and four foot leash. He knows he's got more room now and he will go out to the end of the 4 feet but usually just for some quick reconaissance and then he's back trotting along at my side.

For me even 6 feet is reserved only for special occaisions where we're somewhere in a park or something. 4 foot is our regular walking leash, and the 1 foot rarely gets used anymore, but it's there should someone need a referesher course. For a drag line I have a 30 foot nylon training lead, but I don't walk anyone on that. I walk to the park on the normal leashes, stop, attach the drag line and then give a release word. There's no confusion about it that way.

ORIGINAL: houndlove
For a drag line I have a 30 foot nylon training lead, but I don't walk anyone on that. I walk to the park on the normal leashes, stop, attach the drag line and then give a release word. There's no confusion about it that way.

What would you use on a hiking trail, the leash? dragline?

On hikes I usually use a 6 foot leash, though if I didn't do all my hiking in a city park and was way far out in the country, I'd probably use the 30 foot drag line. But when we "hike" we're usually less than a mile in any given direction from a major road, so I don't like to risk it. Also the trails are heavily populated with other people and dogs--I like to keep mine close so they don't get into any trouble.

ok, I just looked up "force collar" and no, that is NOT the same as a prong/ pinch collar. It's a leather choker with sharp metal spikes that go against the dogs neck. Very inhumane. Your dog hits that with any force at all and your dog will be screaming and bleeding.

I just went and looked it up too. Yowza, isn't that an actual medieval torture device (yes, I read the DaVinci Code, and that right there is the first and last time I will actually publicly admit to that)?

Why would anyone even for a moment consider doing this to their dog? I can pretty much gaurentee that that would not pass the "I tried it on myself and it didn't hurt" test.

oh my gawwwwd...... It really IS like the cerise from TDVC.... That is just freakish.  Total disbelief that anyone would consider sticking that on their "beloved pet".

You folks you really think the leather force collar with the small copper rivets (barely long enough to hit the skin) is actually worse than the big wire contraption known as a prong  collar that looks like it will remove the head completely?  Are we looking at the same thing?  Hey don't get upset with me, I own neither.  Yes, I have considered the leather force collar, only because I doubt those small copper rivets barley hit the skin.  The prong collar however to me looks very, very nasty.

Furthermore, the spikes on a prong collar without question appear longer than those on a force collar, and would no doubt "hurt".  The ones on a force collar appear like the dogs own hair would even prevent them from even making contact.

I doubt those small copper rivets barley hit the skin.

If that's the theory, then what is the point of the copper rivets anyway, if you think they don't/won't/shouldn't hit the skin? To drag across the skin, causing abrasion? No thanks.

Get out your boas, flick on the fog machine, and wax those mustaches, girls! The drama queens are in the house!

ORIGINAL: cc431
You folks you really think the leather force collar with the small copper rivets (barely long enough to hit the skin) is actually worse than the big wire contraption known as a prong collar that looks like it will remove the head completely?

I wasn't sure about the prong, a-t a-l-l ! (And I only used it for a short time.) But, I followed a suggestion to wrap it around my own neck and pull. I did that and was amazed that, because of the slip feature, the collar put equal distribution around my neck, so no particular prong pressed harder than any other. It felt more like a firm, continuous grip and didn't at all feel pointy.

The leather force collar (see two pics below to see those "sharp" spikes) seems to operate on the same principle and has a similar slip action. I've never seen one in person, nor heard anyone I trust speak of using it, and on that basis I'd avoid it. PACleader quickly reported dislike of the force collar earlier in this thread, maybe there's some experience there to be shared?

In either collar, however, I think the 2' leash idea is worth repeating as a mantra, as you'd not want your dog to work up mph on either collar (or a head harness, either, for that matter).

Looks can be deceiving.  The prong causes a bit of discomfort, kind of a pinch but not real pain.  Although I suppose if you put a long line of any kind on a dog and let him fly to the end of it, there would be some serious pain.  But, if you use one correctly...........................