AKC and protection sport, what do you think?

I think the AKC should integrate these sports to their programs because the reality is that GSD's are used for this sport, so are Rotties, Dobes, and other breeds. The AKC should not try to make these sports 'disappear' There is nothing agressive about protection work or schutzund (?). A protection trained dog must be VERY well trained and have control over himself, you arent just throwing an agressive maniac into the ring and letting them attack. The problem with the AKC is that they have become a 'high society' type of the thing and in high society this type of thing isnt accepted.
 
You cannot deny a breed of what it was bred to do and the AKC is doing just that with many breeds

The issue I am concerned about involves the AKCs ability to develop, promote and maintain a quality protection program.  The liability when bite work is involved is huge.  There are clueless owners and exhibiters in all AKC venues already,  I just have concerns about adding the protection sports to the AKC menu.  You could easily title your dog in FR, ScH, KNVP or IPO (may have those initials incorrect).  I dont think the AKC needs to get involved. 
 
Insurance companies will cancel your policy if you have a protection (bite work trained dog).
 
Dog show venues are already limited in some major metropolitian areas (Cincinnati and Denver) due to breed specific legislation. 
 
I also feel protection sport at AKC events might make it an even bigger target for PETA and other animal rights groups.

ORIGINAL: mrv

The issue I am concerned about involves the AKCs ability to develop, promote and maintain a quality protection program.  The liability when bite work is involved is huge.  There are clueless owners and exhibiters in all AKC venues already,  I just have concerns about adding the protection sports to the AKC menu.  You could easily title your dog in FR, ScH, KNVP or IPO (may have those initials incorrect).  I dont think the AKC needs to get involved. 

Insurance companies will cancel your policy if you have a protection (bite work trained dog).

Dog show venues are already limited in some major metropolitian areas (Cincinnati and Denver) due to breed specific legislation. 

I also feel protection sport at AKC events might make it an even bigger target for PETA and other animal rights groups.

 
I completely agree.  The AKC is by far the most main stream canine competative organization in the US.  I think with as law suit/BSL happy as this country is now, nothing good could come out of making bite work "main stream."

I think the AKC is going to try and fail. Like you said there are already major organizations recongized by the FCI that already have the market. I train malinois and am a part of Schutzhund USA and AWMA. These are where the serious competetors all lie. and the only link the AKC has is that there registry is recongized by the FCI. I tihnk what are going to see with AKC is dogs that are not very good, and not very fun to watch. this IMO is another way for people to title thier dogs so the AKC can sell more papers. the more successgul dogs are the more they are breed. this of course is a generalization. I just think the AKC program is going be midly amusing you will see show dog people try to but working titles on their dogs and the AKC will grant them. but real protection dog person is going to buy off on that.

As stated above they will only allow 4 breeds, I don't know what breeds, to perform sothat alone will eliminate a good number of owners alone.  While I do agree to many freaks want to make their dog do what they see on TV.  These are the people that try to train ScH at home, and start at level 4 or don't properly train the first  and most important level 100% obediance.  I do agree that FR ScH are better ways to go, I am sorry I am unfamiliar with the other 2 so I cannot comment.  But they are not as well spread through mainstream dog people, unless you own those particular breeds.  I think that if more people seen them they may understand the sedication and training that has to go into one of these dogs.  Is this going to stop the freaks, no, but right now they can go buy a book on ScH training and try it at home anyway.  I have to agree with LizzyCollie these breeds are used mainly for this purpose now the AKC should support that, then if it succeds then maybe the CanKC will follow.

I KNOW that my own breed is involved in this.  I believe the allowed dogs are teh German Shepherd Dog, Rottweiler, Doberman Pinscher, and Bouvier des Flandres.
 
Personally, I'm GLAD to see this sport.  To be honest, they're probably going to water down their working dog test, ao it's not going to be the same as schutzhund (which has watered down itself).
 
I participate in schutzhund, I learn, I work hard, and WAY too many people focus on the bitework!  Even ones who know about the sport!  Yes, we live in a sue happy society, yes, there is liability...but there's liability in EVERY dog sport!  Look at the dog aggressive dogs shown in agility, or dogs that go so crazy with prey drive, you can't get them under control, or dogs that are just CRAZY in general and cause a big scene at an obedience trial!
 
Speaking strictly about schutzhund, hasn't anybody noticed that bitework is teh LAST phase?  Obedience, Tracking, Protection.  That's the order.
 
I for one am TIRED of taking my lumps and worrying about average Joe Stupid.  I try and educate people I know about schutzhund.  AKC won't accept schutzhund titles on pedigrees...well, they're making their own working dog program, and I think that's a step in the right direction!
 
My breed in America, IMO, has become incredibly weak nerved, lacks drive to work, and are just...well, not what a GSD should be I don't think.  I refuse to let my own breeding program go that way. and my dogs will be tested to the f ullest extent.  My main venue is AKC, just because those shows are most widely available, and I can't currently afford to drive all over God's Green Earth to find a schutzhund trial or SV Conformation show.
 
I want and NEED this new sport to press forward, and I hope it's a success!  I also want to saee them add more breeds to the program (Giant Schnazuers and Boxers for example).

What I worry about is that if AKC does this, they make this kind of competition a bit more "mainstream".  The danger is not from the competitors who understand those sports and the dogs that are suitable for them, it's from the byb's and puppy mills that will soon be churning out unstable versions of the new "canine heroes" that unsuspecting macho guys and gals will be watching on Animal Planet instead of the agility trials or bench shows.  Trouble is, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and these idiots will then try to train their very own little "protection dog".  [:'(]  

My breed in America, IMO, has become incredibly weak nerved, lacks drive to work, and are just...well, not what a GSD should be I don't think.

 
I don't want to start a row here, but I think this is AKC's fault, too.
After all, those show judges want those sloping dogs...etc.
They did the same thing to Aussies - a working dog can't win at an AKC show anymore.  Years ago, there were many dual champions.  Now the stockdogs are mainly ASCA, and the show dogs AKC.  Why? Because it became a beauty contest, and the qualities that make a good working dog don't fit.  Today's show dogs are elegant and they can gait, but they would probably die of heatstroke if they had to work cattle all day.  Too much bone, too much coat...some of them look like Golden Retrievers in merle coats. 
I do agree that working titles are a good thing!!!!  But, is the AKC the right org?  I have my doubts.  I have had many people who are interested in obedience tell me that they have no respect for the CGC program, yet they will say it's ok to ILP a dog you know isn't purebred.  I know nothing is perfect, but I'm looking for a bit more honesty and less hypocrisy.  (I will feel better when the AKC steps up to the plate to figure out how to address the puppy mill problem adequately.)

[linkhttp://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/board_minutes/0706.pdf]http://www.akc.org/pdfs/about/board_minutes/0706.pdf[/link]
 
Scroll down to page 19.  And it goes on and on from there. 
 
I found it a little strange that the Belgian breeds aren't allowed.  Anyone know why?

While the Belgian breeds are used incredibly often in French Ring, KNVP, and Schutzhund over in Europe, they are not as popular for that use here.  I do see many Malinois competing, but not nearly as many as GSDs.  They are still primarily a herding dog from what I know.
 
mrv will probably know more than I, but it is extremely rare to see a Groenendael (Belgian Sheepdog, I Just like saying Groenendael xD) or Tervuren in schutzhund and the other rings.

The clubs participating specifically requested to be included when the AKC did a general mailing/contact to be included in the pilot.  The belgian folks (boards of breed clubs) did not opt to be included.
 
As to belgian participation in protection, it much higher in Europe than in the US. This may be due in part to the protection element of the evaluations for breeding recommendations. You also see Beligans in greater numbers in FR.  There are a number of working Tervs and Groens, both in FR and ScH.  They tend to be geographically concentrated  (east coast and west coast).
 
My problem with the AKC doing protection sport deals with the fact AKC tries to be a mainstream venue.  Protection is not a mainstream sport any more than retrieving, pointing/flushing, and herding (no sports eliminated from the list for any reason other than memory).

I for one am glad to see the AKC start thinking more about performance-oriented venues. I think their focus on silly beauty competitions has flat-out ruined many dog breeds. 
 

I have to agree with mudpuppy, AKC and CanKC put too much stock in the looks and little in the workability, the more breeds that can compeat in more trial the better. The more sports they put out there for people to do with their dogs the better. The AKC I am sure will have the dogs compleate obediance titles before moving on to the higher sports. I personally want a dog that looks like a Bouv, but more importantly I want a bouv that is stable tempered and can do work as well, when I want my giant lapdog I will get an Irish Wolfhound. There is a breed that has been turned into a pet an nothing else, you rarely see people doing lure coursing with them, let alone anything else, BTW I love them and will own them, I am not bashing them just pointing out a fact. I find it sad that labs have been turned into esentually 2 breeds the show lab and the field lab, and I truely feel for the family that gets a field lab not knowing the difference. They both look like labs for the most part but the temperment is so different, and few if any field labs will do well in both venues, that is truely the saddest part, too me. The downside to this new sport is that people will build their kennels around dogs that excel at this sport, but are so different than their show brethern that they don't look like the breed standard any more.

I wonder if only allowing dogs to compete in any dog sport after it has gained a conformation title would fix this problem?

I wonder if only allowing dogs to compete in any dog sport after it has gained a conformation title would fix this problem?

 
It is my personal belief that a dog should have a WORKING title before being allowed to show in conformation.  That is what's done in the SV.  After a dog turns 2 years of age, they MUST have a schutzhund title or HGH (German Herding Title) to continue competing in conformation.
 
I tihnk it makes more sense for a dog to prove it can work first.  Any dog can run around a ring, NOT every dog can do the work it's bred for.  And, a GSD with a floppy ear is an automatic disqualification from the show ring, but it does not severely effect his ability to do schutzhund or herd, not like a fault of gait.
 
I'd rather have a dog that can work than a dog that can run around in circles (Which is what many AKC/CanKC dogs do these days)