"Naturally Complete" from Purina's Dog Chow line ...

Thank you Jessie's Mom!  I have never said this before, but this topic can almost be like the Chicken Little story.  A newbie, espcially young ones who have only had one or two dogs  that is THEIR OWN responsibility (no parents taking care of food, vets trips, vax, etc) and they start to to read that all these different brands (Science Diet, Ekanuba, Purina, etc, etc) are SOOOO many  awful ingredients, there is road kill in them, they are mostly corn and dogs can not digest corn, these companies do not care about your dog, they are only out to make money, etc, etc, etc. and that only X.Y, Z brand is totally nutricious and balanced and contains EXACTLY what a dog needs.
 
So, these poor folks, who really love their dogs and want to do best for them,  think they are being horrible dog owners for not knowing that only X,Y, and Z are good foods, that they have had their dogs on one of the awful foods so long that the poor things are going to drop dead in a weeks time from eating corn, road kill, and all the grains. 
 
Well, the sky isn't going to fall in if they don't eat X, Y, or Z foods.  Luckily   I am not young, have been around dogs, mulitply dogs at a time usually, for my entire 61 years.  I have seen to many of my dad's setters and pointers live beyound their age expectancy and in good health at that, (and were still used for quail hunting) on Purina Dog Chow to believe it is "awful" for them, that they were not getting the balance of nurtients they needed. 
 
In the last 24 years I  have lost  4 dogs.
 
Red, my first irish Setter showed up at the house as a stray, age about 4.  I had him 8 years and lost him to a spinal infection that would not respond to any of the antiboitics my vet then used. (I think my vet today would have saved him).  Outside of those trips for the spinal infection, his only trips to the vet outside of checks & Vax was a couple of times he ate popcorn & got bad tummy ache, and another time he got into some grease I had thrown out and casued bloody "di-rear".I don't know what he was before before, but at our house he got Purina Dog Chow until he died in '84
 
I lost my last Irish Setter at age 12 1/2 to bone cancer in rear leg.  Outside of that he was healthy, and in fact lived much longer than exepcted with the cancer.  Up until the day before i sent him to the bridge he was chasing crabs in the shallow water, trying to catch shore birds, swimming around where I was wade fishing.  He was fed Purina Puppy and then Dog Chow his entire life from age 9 weeks when I got him. He was allergic to fleas, had an ear hematoma once, and outside of that no visits except for his yearly checks and vax--until i started taking him in twice a week after cancer diagnosis (my vet didn't even charge me to check his weight and leg twice a week). He died July 9, 1997
 
The next two died young.  Scooter, golden retriever, dropped dead  at age 5 of heart attack Aug 99.  The heart defect had never been found until his death.  At 6 months he was retrieving ducks.  One year before his death he was found to have low thyroid and also very mild HD.  He was the best duck retrieveing dog you ever saw.  The Purina puppy chow, nor the Purina dog chow caused  (or could have prevented) his heart attack.
 
And then my golden retriever, Hunter, died at age 4 in Oct. 2003 of AIHA and liver damage brought on by Proheart 6.  Nothing could have prevented this other than not having recieved the PH6 injection to begin with.  He was also a Purina dog and he was never sick a day in his life, not even a virus or sniffle.
 
Right now I have Buck who is 11 years, 5 months old  and he passed his geriatric physical  a month ago with flying colors, except for kidney infection, his first ever.  I am talking $200 worth of blood work, urinaylsis, etc.  My vet thinks it is funny that Buck, at is age and despite some arthritis in hips and spine still trots rather than walk.
 
KayCee will be 7 in Aug. and her main vet bills were knee surgeries, she has had one ear infection, and it was a bad one, a 24 hour virus that required her being put in ICU on IV as she threw up to much, allergic reaction to vax at age 2 1/2.
 
Honey was adopted 3 1/2 years ago, had treatment for heartworms a month after we got her, and got into d-con that was knocked from our attic.  Outside of that, no trips to vet except checks and vax.  All these are fed purina--chow for the old man, fit & trim for the girls.
 
Well, what I am saying I didn't believe and don't belive the sky is gonna fall in because I feed Purina as it has worked just fine for our dogs for as far back as i can remember watching my dad feed our dogs.
 
There is one who has posted a number of times that when you feed you dog this junk food, they may appear healthy for years and years and then suddenly at age 10 or whatever, they more or less fall apart becuase they had not gotten nutrients A, B, C and M for all those years, and they have not been healthy all along as you thought.  I can't agree with this.  When you are missing something it shows up one way or the other---blood work, coat, teeth or gums, nails, level of enegery, prone to infections, colds,  runny or goopy eyes, etc etc.  I do not believe you live for all those years with perfect blood work, beautiful coats, teeth, gums, nails, ton of energy, no illnessess  and then suddenly at age 10 develope  everything under the sun wrong because you missed out on certain nutrients all those years.  There would have been signs all along. Also if this was  correct, no matter what you feed your dogs, you won't know until they are old and suddenly either develope all kinds of problems, or live on in great health past life expectancy if the food was right or not for them---no matter brand or style of feeding. 

ORIGINAL: sandra_slayton

Thank you Jessie's Mom!  I have never said this before, but this topic can almost be like the Chicken Little story.  A newbie, espcially young ones who have only had one or two dogs  that is THEIR OWN responsibility (no parents taking care of food, vets trips, vax, etc) and they start to to read that all these different brands (Science Diet, Ekanuba, Purina, etc, etc) are SOOOO many  awful ingredients, there is road kill in them, they are mostly corn and dogs can not digest corn, these companies do not care about your dog, they are only out to make money, etc, etc, etc. and that only X.Y, Z brand is totally nutricious and balanced and contains EXACTLY what a dog needs.

So, these poor folks, who really love their dogs and want to do best for them,  think they are being horrible dog owners for not knowing that only X,Y, and Z are good foods, that they have had their dogs on one of the awful foods so long that the poor things are going to drop dead in a weeks time from eating corn, road kill, and all the grains. 

Well, the sky isn't going to fall in if they don't eat X, Y, or Z foods.  Luckily   I am not young, have been around dogs, mulitply dogs at a time usually, for my entire 61 years.  I have seen to many of my dad's setters and pointers live beyound their age expectancy and in good health at that, (and were still used for quail hunting) on Purina Dog Chow to believe it is "awful" for them, that they were not getting the balance of nurtients they needed. 

In the last 24 years I  have lost  4 dogs.

Red, my first irish Setter showed up at the house as a stray, age about 4.  I had him 8 years and lost him to a spinal infection that would not respond to any of the antiboitics my vet then used. (I think my vet today would have saved him).  Outside of those trips for the spinal infection, his only trips to the vet outside of checks & Vax was a couple of times he ate popcorn & got bad tummy ache, and another time he got into some grease I had thrown out and casued bloody "di-rear".I don't know what he was before before, but at our house he got Purina Dog Chow until he died in '84

I lost my last Irish Setter at age 12 1/2 to bone cancer in rear leg.  Outside of that he was healthy, and in fact lived much longer than exepcted with the cancer.  Up until the day before i sent him to the bridge he was chasing crabs in the shallow water, trying to catch shore birds, swimming around where I was wade fishing.  He was fed Purina Puppy and then Dog Chow his entire life from age 9 weeks when I got him. He was allergic to fleas, had an ear hematoma once, and outside of that no visits except for his yearly checks and vax--until i started taking him in twice a week after cancer diagnosis (my vet didn't even charge me to check his weight and leg twice a week). He died July 9, 1997

The next two died young.  Scooter, golden retriever, dropped dead  at age 5 of heart attack Aug 99.  The heart defect had never been found until his death.  At 6 months he was retrieving ducks.  One year before his death he was found to have low thyroid and also very mild HD.  He was the best duck retrieveing dog you ever saw.  The Purina puppy chow, nor the Purina dog chow caused  (or could have prevented) his heart attack.

And then my golden retriever, Hunter, died at age 4 in Oct. 2003 of AIHA and liver damage brought on by Proheart 6.  Nothing could have prevented this other than not having recieved the PH6 injection to begin with.  He was also a Purina dog and he was never sick a day in his life, not even a virus or sniffle.

Right now I have Buck who is 11 years, 5 months old  and he passed his geriatric physical  a month ago with flying colors, except for kidney infection, his first ever.  I am talking $200 worth of blood work, urinaylsis, etc.  My vet thinks it is funny that Buck, at is age and despite some arthritis in hips and spine still trots rather than walk.

KayCee will be 7 in Aug. and her main vet bills were knee surgeries, she has had one ear infection, and it was a bad one, a 24 hour virus that required her being put in ICU on IV as she threw up to much, allergic reaction to vax at age 2 1/2.

Honey was adopted 3 1/2 years ago, had treatment for heartworms a month after we got her, and got into d-con that was knocked from our attic.  Outside of that, no trips to vet except checks and vax.  All these are fed purina--chow for the old man, fit & trim for the girls.

Well, what I am saying I didn't believe and don't belive the sky is gonna fall in because I feed Purina as it has worked just fine for our dogs for as far back as i can remember watching my dad feed our dogs.

There is one who has posted a number of times that when you feed you dog this junk food, they may appear healthy for years and years and then suddenly at age 10 or whatever, they more or less fall apart becuase they had not gotten nutrients A, B, C and M for all those years, and they have not been healthy all along as you thought.  I can't agree with this.  When you are missing something it shows up one way or the other---blood work, coat, teeth or gums, nails, level of enegery, prone to infections, colds,  runny or goopy eyes, etc etc.  I do not believe you live for all those years with perfect blood work, beautiful coats, teeth, gums, nails, ton of energy, no illnessess  and then suddenly at age 10 develope  everything under the sun wrong because you missed out on certain nutrients all those years.  There would have been signs all along. Also if this was  correct, no matter what you feed your dogs, you won't know until they are old and suddenly either develope all kinds of problems, or live on in great health past life expectancy if the food was right or not for them---no matter brand or style of feeding. 

 
You can be as patronizing as you wish, but there is nothing you can say that is going to make me feed my dog a product that is mostly corn when I will not feed my herbivore mostly corn.  If you choose to, and you feel that it is right for your dogs, fine.
 
I don't.  According to everything that I have read, and the results that I have seen in dogs, it is not a good idea for my dog.  You can promote it all day long, and I am still not going to think that it is a good idea.

Let's all please remember that EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion.  I saw nothing patronizing in Sandra's post, FWIW.

Actually, after the hydrochloric acid in the stomach breaks the vegetables down, the fact that they were raw mean nothing....they are not digested until they get into the small intestine, so when you eat raw vegetables, your system has to work harder to break down all the cellulose than if you were to eat cooked vegetables.

False.

The raw veggies have enzymes, so you work LESS to break them down. Cooking kills the enzymes.

Try eating ONLY raw fruits, veggies, and nuts for a couple of days. You'll see an amazing difference. You have energy to use for something besides digesting[]

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Let's all please remember that EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion.  I saw nothing patronizing in Sandra's post, FWIW.

 
I never told her what she should feed her dogs.  I was refering to this statement "I have never said this before, but this topic can almost be like the Chicken Little story.  A newbie, espcially young ones who have only had one or two dogs  that is THEIR OWN responsibility (no parents taking care of food, vets trips, vax, etc) and they start to to read that all these different brands (Science Diet, Ekanuba, Purina, etc, etc) are SOOOO many  awful ingredients, there is road kill in them, they are mostly corn and dogs can not digest corn, these companies do not care about your dog, they are only out to make money, etc, etc, etc. and that only X.Y, Z brand is totally nutricious and balanced and contains EXACTLY what a dog needs."
 
In my opinion, it came off as patronizing. 

Actually, after the hydrochloric acid in the stomach breaks the vegetables down, the fact that they were raw mean nothing....they are not digested until they get into the small intestine, so when you eat raw vegetables, your system has to work harder to break down all the cellulose than if you were to eat cooked vegetables.

ORIGINAL: papillon806

I just went and got a couple of cans of the green beans & carrots I feed my dogs. Since i have never studied animal nutrition, only human, I do not know the amounts of each vitamin, that dogs require.  But for humans, the unsalted green beans supple 6% of the vitamin A, 6% of the vitamin C, 2% of the calcium, and 4% of the iron, 4% for the dietary fiber.  The unsalted  carrots supply 80% of vitamin A, 6% of vitamin C, 4% of calcium, and 4% of iron, and 14% of the fiber.  I mostly feed these to my dogs because they happen to like them (will not touch raw carrots)
 
Neither dogs nor humans could live by cooked green beans and carrots alone, but there is value to these veggies.  Also, while doing poop patrol in the back yard and picking up after 3 large dogs, I have yet to see chunks of carrot or green beans in their poop--althought I have never gotten down and poked a "log" apart.
 
As raw vs. cooked, and this just applies to some humans I know/knew, my Mom included, there were certain veggies that she could not digest raw, but could eat just fine cooked, broccoli being one.

There is no such thing as a kibble tree, nor are there dry dog food supermarkets in the wild. Feed raw! Dogs have the same digestive systems as wolves! Their systems are designed for raw meat, poultry, muscle and bone. Does momma wolf go "shopping"? No, she goes hunting. Think about it please.

BTW, do you hunt your dogs' food? Feed whole prey? Feed food infested with parasites? Feed roadkill? Carrion?

Because wolves don't eat supermarket meat.

Actually, you missed the point of the entire post.  The point was when someone new comes here (and most of you DO NOT do this) don't start right in on how horrible the food is they feed their dogs and they if they want heallty dogs they must feed  such and such brands.  It  is possible they can't afford  it or live in area awhere they can't get it.  Some may could afford it if it was local, but can't afford the shipping charge on top of the pirce of food.  Then they feel so horrible because they are not doing right by their dog---even if it is beyond their circumstances.  I suspect that is why hundreds that post in other topics do not post here.  I see names reading the threads, but never a post by them.  They feed one of the "lesser" dog food and are afraid of being slammed for doing so.  And the simple truth is, what they feed their dog may be just what works best for it as Purina does for my dogs.
 
 
I have NEVER told anyone to use Purina or any other brand, just that it has worked for our dogs for close to 60 years.  I could get a dog tomorrow and it would not work for them and I would most certainly hunt around til I found what worked, be it TO or Ol Roy.
 
As far as I know I have never put anyone down for the brand of food  or style of feeding their dogs, but I have been slammed many times for feeding purina.  So what!  I know my dogs, i know they are healthy, I know it works for them and that is all that is important to me.   I just don't like to see newbies more or less get the riot act read to them because of the way they feed their dogs...even if it is something they can't help.

Please don't confuse someone saying why they will not feed a certain food with slamming others. 

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

All dog foods that are labeled complete and balanced like Beneful, have a nutrient profile that satisfies all of the known nutrient requirements of the dog.  Could you do better, perhaps, but that is quite different from soda pop and candy which satisfy very few if any of the known nutrient requirements of man.


[linkhttp://www.fda.gov/cvm/petfood.htm]http://www.fda.gov/cvm/petfood.htm[/link]

There are little tricky ways that dog food companies can make the gauranteed analysis better than it actually is.

For example: shoe leather has protien in it, but no animal, not even a dog can digest the protien in that shoe leather, but you can bet that they include that shoe leather, indegestible protien in that protien percentage on the bag. 

By-product is alot like shoe leather.  Further, if you fed your kids cupcakes and gave them vitamins they'd have a "nutritionally sound diet," but they would eventually get diabetees.  Beneful is load with sugar and salt - no amount of vitamins is going to prevent heart failure and diabetes.

ORIGINAL: glenmar
we should look at their geographic location and understand that they do not neccessarily have available all the choices that WE do in the continental United States. 

Thanks for making that point, Glenda.  As far as I can figure out, the only "premium" food I can get here that is available in America is Royal Canin, and the ingredients aren't even the same.  People do the best they can with what they have, be that financial resources, availability, personal opinions or any of the other criteria that determine a choice in dog food, or anything else.  I feed Ben the best food I can find...I can't see the point in beating myself up for not having choices when those choices are not governed by me in the first place.
 
There are so many unloved, abused, neglected, abandoned and otherwise mistreated animals in the world. I refuse to believe that anyone giving an animal a loving, caring home with regular food and water - not to mention toys, a warm place to sleep, affection and lifelong companionship - is commiting some kind of act of heinous abuse if they feed that animal anything but a super premium food.  At least it IS being fed. [sm=2cents.gif]
 
Kate

False.

So I guess what they are teaching me in grad. school is incorrect?

You claim raw veggies "have" active enzymes? Which ones would you be referring to?

ORIGINAL: Benedict


There are so many unloved, abused, neglected, abandoned and otherwise mistreated animals in the world. I refuse to believe that anyone giving an animal a loving, caring home with regular food and water - not to mention toys, a warm place to sleep, affection and lifelong companionship - is commiting some kind of act of heinous abuse if they feed that animal anything but a super premium food.  At least it IS being fed. [sm=2cents.gif]

Kate

I totally agree with you, but Beneful is expensive.  Iams, Purina Dog Chow, even Pedigree is the same price or less than Beneful and doesn't contain salt or sugar.

Amen to that Kate!  I totally agree with you.  I went from feeding Jake Iams to feeding him Blue Buffalo.  I tried to go up a little on the ladder but honestly when it comes time for the next bag and if money is tight I will get him what I can afford.  I try to give him raw once a week or twice if I can for his teeth and some homecooked to.  I do the best I can, when I can.  I still deserve to have the love and affection and companionship of my Jakey.  Not to mention he has a wonderful home with a family who loves him.

So I guess what they are teaching me in grad. school is incorrect?

You claim raw veggies "have" active enzymes? Which ones would you be referring to?

Of course raw veggies have active enzymes. All raw foods do, which is one of the many arguements for a raw diet, for humans, or animals.

I dunno about grad school. My boss is a (human) nutritionist, and I asked him if it was correct, and he says it is. People who eat all cooked food often need to take additional enzymes. Those who eat mostly or all raw almost never do. We're built to eat raw foods, like all animals.