Nutritional Balance; Small vs. Large Companies

My Dad has fed his dogs Gravy Train his whole life, and his dogs have all died of old age at around 16, they have always got plenty of exercise and been in good health. 

I have not been able to Post for a while or I would have responded sooner.
 
Since I was asked...my credentials include 30 years of studying about everything ever written on nutrition, studying specific pieces of research quoted by other companies for peer reviewed validity, 10 years attending seminars in person, and attending other brands' online seminars. We have 5 consulting Ph.D / PAS nutritionists available to us and experts on given subjects from our suppliers. (For vitamins and minerals we have 2 Ph. D's available from BASF for example.)
 
The balance and level of nutrients is key and we arrive at that in several ways. AAFCO is a base but we don't go by that other than to be certain we are not deficient or in excess on a given nutrient. We lab test our formulas for all nutrients, have computer models and did feed trials and cross  referenced all three. Today we have a breeder advisory council that feeds our foods and monitors things like overall health, breedings, number of pups, and number of pups born live/healthy and how old Eagle Pack fed dogs live. We also have a veterinary advisory board. (Our Great Dane study found the Eagle Pack Danes now live on average of 8-10 years, up from 6-8 from years ago with Danes fed other brands. And to quote,"...and 10 year olds are in better shape as an old dog, than they were as geriatrics 15 years ago".)  
 
Keep in mind that in 1988 the 2 companies that bragged about their vast research facilities and budgets, were the 2 companies that apparantly did not know that cats needed good levels of Taurine. They killed many cats before they figured it out. We also have access to 2 university Ph.D' that are the leading experts in fiber/Prebiotics and another is the leading expert in FUS in cats.
 
I would be pleased to answer any other questions.
 
John
 
 

Response to my email from Innova.  They also sent me some attachments if anyone wants to see them, PM me your email address.
 
Dear Stacy,
           
            Thank you for contacting Natura Pet Products.  During our developments of our formulas, yes, we have nutritionists and vets right by our side!  Please check out our link below.  Peter Atkins is our VP & nutritionist, and Dr. Belfield has been our right hand man.   
 
[link>http://www.belfield.com/home.html]http://www.belfield.com/home.html[/link][/size]

And we'd certainly welcome your input more often.Then again, I am a nut for science.
 

Good Morning,
 
I had answered your question but it was some time after you asked it, as I was not able to log in for a period of time. Is there anything else I can help you with?
 
John

ORIGINAL: brittman

Good Morning,

I had answered your question but it was some time after you asked it, as I was not able to log in for a period of time. Is there anything else I can help you with?

John

I wasn't asking any specific question, I just said "I wish that John Marshman's posts consisted of more than 'EP works well', or 'we've had good luck with EP'. I would like to know his credentials as a person employed in that capacity and I'd like to know more about why they do the things they do."

Thank you for sharing your experience, it has been mentioned that there is no such thing as a canine-nutritionist degree; that made me curious what credentials or degree someone in your position would have.

I sincerely hope you'll have time in the future to contribute some of your knowledge to the discussions here. Knowing more about the formulations and ingredients and why they work they way they do or why they are good from your point of view would be enlightning for a lot of us.

Kelly;  There is information on thier website about the ingredients they use and why;
                   [linkhttp://www.eaglepack.com/pages/holistic_ingredients.html]http://www.eaglepack.com/pages/holistic_ingredients.html[/link]
 
 John used to be on the old forum more; he may have had problems getting onto the new forum like some other members have.

ORIGINAL: brookcove

I have a question reading all this.  I don't consult a pediatric nutritionist when I feed my children, and never have.  Ie, they never had commericial "baby food", one child because he couldn't eat these products, and the second child ate only whole fresh foods because my first child put me in the habit of preparing their foods from day one of solid feeding.

Can I be trusted to supply my kids with a "balanced" diet?  Do I have the expertise that I need?  Or should I switch them over to Carnation Instant Breakfast bars and beverages, which are nutrionally complete as certified by hospital dietary experts?  Is my kids' nutrition as important as my dogs'?

I'm pretty confident that a variety of high-quality foods that are appropriate for my dogs will provide them with all the nutrients they need.  That's the best I can do and I refuse to second guess my choices because this company or that one or I myself do not employ a specific type of high-dollar expert that the big corporations have decided I can't feed my dogs without. [sm=rolleyes.gif]

 
[sm=wink2.gif]  Well said.

I would be pleased to answer any other questions.

John

 
John; I have a question about the enzymes that EP puts in the holistic formulas;  I have read that if enzymes are added to a dog's food thier pancreas will eventually " get lazy" and stop producing the amount of enzymes necessary for digestion. Is there any truth to that?

Can I add my own thinking to that question?... I've heard that adding a probiotic supplement (Prozyme and similar products) daily will cause the body to become lazy about producing its own enzymes, but I assumed that the amount added to the kibble was minimal enough to avoid that.

I think probiotics are excellent for illness, stress, and transitions.  I've not only had good luck wth them with the dogs, I've seen them help to bring livestock back from near death.

The most effective that come in a convenient form are the gels - I think Fastrack makes a pet version of their probiotic gel.  These are fantastic for puppies with upset tummies - upset tummy in a pup is always an emergency in my book, so I keep these around and even in my travel kit.

I have heard from animal feed experts that probiotics added to feed are pretty much a waste of money.  I think it's kind of like the dog food version of "Sea Monkeys" - you think it's a whole bunch of happy little guys swimming around when really it's a powder that turns into, like, four krill shrimp (or about 20,000 weak versions of the beneficial organims).  But it looks good on paper.

When I look at a feed, I look at what's above the fat to see whether it's got what I need.  I don't feed enough of the product to benefit from anything else, I feel, except maybe the micronutrients, to some extent. 

I do look at all the rest to make sure nothing is down there that can harm my dog, however!  I also switch around a lot to reduce the chances that they aren't exposed to anything in an incidental way.  Other than that I really try not to nitpick ingredients [sm=rofl.gif][sm=crazy.gif]

have heard from animal feed experts that probiotics added to feed are pretty much a waste of money. I think it's kind of like the dog food version of "Sea Monkeys" - you think it's a whole bunch of happy little guys swimming around when really it's a powder that turns into, like, four krill shrimp (or about 20,000 weak versions of the beneficial organims). But it looks good on paper.

 
 Jessie's digestive system does much better on Eagle Pack than she did on Eukanuba and Nutro; she used to have cow patty stools and frequent bouts of upset stomach on the other foods so I think the probiotics they add do help based on my experience. EP lists the type and amount of each of the direct fed microbials in thier food on the bag which to me means that they take it seriously.