Nutritional Balance; Small vs. Large Companies

I do share your concerns, especially after it was mentioned the other day that Natural Balance might not even employ a nutritionist.

I wish that John Marshman's posts consisted of more than 'EP works well', or 'we've had good luck with EP'. I would like to know his credentials as a person employed in that capacity and I'd like to know more about why they do the things they do.

Common sense tells me the ingredients of the holistic foods are better, but I have had my doubts about how many of those eye-candy ingredients are actually beneficial and available to the dog for it's body to use.

Common sense tells me the ingredients of the holistic foods are better, but I have had my doubts about how many of those eye-candy ingredients are actually beneficial and available to the dog for it's body to use.

 
Normally, I would agree with you on that and I would usually agree that a food company should employ a vet or nutritionist. OTOH, a number of people here make their dogs' own food and seem to be doing well. Some of these small holistic companies might be comparable to those here who homecook or feed raw, completely taking responsibility for the balance of their dogs' nutrition.
 

I strongly agree that the balance of nutrients is critical.  I find that most holistic companies use so many ingredients (emphasizing 'some'), that the dog cannot even digest all of it (thus causing diarrhea in some cases).  However, I do think that because the big companies have so many nutritionists (ppl that I have studied with--lots went to Hills and Purina), they are more able to manipulate ingredients to suit the dogs needs.  For example, when you know so much about nutrition and the components of ingredients, it is easy to find a cheaper substitute proven to do the same as it's more expensive alternative (and also because we take an entire course on formulating feeds on a low-cost basis).  While this may be good for feedlot cattle and chickens, some nutritionists forget that it may not be the best idea to do the same for companion animals.  But then again, so many animals have been eating those foods for so long, and they have been "fine" to our knowledge.  Anyways, it's a difficult subject that I find hard to figure out who is on the upper end (I do value the science and research behind the big companies, but I also value the philosophy of the smaller, holistic companies).  *sigh* so confusing!  

I think that becomes very important when you talk about specialty foods.  I believe only Purina, Hills and Royal Canin employ Certified Veteranary Nutritionists.  Also, these companies spend a lot of money on research, own there own manufacturing facilities and wield great power over there suppliers.  My dogs do better on the foods from these companies, then on the holistic foods.   Then you have The Whole Dog Journal, whom many people consider the bible on dog food, and they don't have any sort of nutritionist.

ORIGINAL: ron2

Normally, I would agree with you on that and I would usually agree that a food company should employ a vet or nutritionist. OTOH, a number of people here make their dogs' own food and seem to be doing well. Some of these small holistic companies might be comparable to those here who homecook or feed raw, completely taking responsibility for the balance of their dogs' nutrition.n.

But I do believe that those dogs who get a spoonful of cottage cheese mixed in their raw or get apples and carrots blended in probably get more out of those ingredients than the dog eating Innova (for example). And I was under the impression that most people feed recipes based on those by someone like Monica Segal. So those are still nutritionist-designed recipes, even Glenda's homecooked was tweaked by a nutritionist.

I guess I have trust issues!  For years I trusted the vets recommendations on food and I'd not do that again.
 
I don't believe that ANY kibble, even my beloved Innova can be totally nutritionally complete.  I don't completely trust that MY own recipe is 100% nutritionally complete either, despite the nutritionalist.  This is why mine get both...what they might miss in one, they get in the other.......

Nah. I don't worry too much.  I guess PetGuard is a holistic food, but it's been around since 1979 and they have a vet and nutritionist on their staff if I recall correctly.
Dogs are doing great.  On the one hand, they are my fur kids but I do have other important things to worry about than food.  Take for instance that my 2 yr old survives on spagettios, pancakes and mac n cheese.  Hardly can get a vegetable down him anymore. 
Not worth worrying about to me, but that's just me

I don't think it is necessary for a pet food company to employ a nutritionist to produce a quality food, but they probably would need access to one on a consulting basis.

I don't believe that ANY kibble, even my beloved Innova can be totally nutritionally complete

 
That is what Dr. Wysong believes, even about his own kibble, he thinks any kibble should be supplemented with meat. 

The smaller companies don't advertise.  They spend their money on product impovement.  Some of your small companies even have plain packaging, once agian to save money on packaging.  They cut corners on the less important stuff like advertising and packaging to afford the high quality ingredients.  Plus, holisitic foods are generally more expensive than say Science Diet.

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

I think that becomes very important when you talk about specialty foods.  I believe only Purina, Hills and Royal Canin employ Certified Veteranary Nutritionists.  A

Eagle Pack and Natura have certified veterinary nutritionist.  I know I've talked to them via phone.  Breeder's Choice, the makers of Pinnacle, Active Care, and Avo Derm, also have a veterinary nutritionalist - I've met him.

I work for a pet product distributor.  One of the foods we distribute is Natural Balance. I just spoke to one of their reps concerning one of our common clients.  I asked him if Natural Balance has a certified vet. nutritionalist.  They have many.  They also make a diet for zoo.  Tiger diet, Lion diet. Monkey Diet etc.  The vets that create the zoo diets also  created the pet diets.  They are certified veterinary nutritionalist.  I also gave him our forum address, so maybe he'll join us!

I believe there are only 25 Certified Veterinary Nutritionists in the world that specialize in canine nutrition they all belong to the same organization and would be familiar with one another.  This is off of a website that is run by ACVN's.
 




Question

Which pet food companies have veterinary nutritionist on staff?

Answer

At this time, there are only 4 to our knowledge: Hill's, Purina, Royal Canine and Waltham employ ACVN Certified Veterinary Nutritionists. You may see other ACVN Diplomates at www.acvn.org.


Korinn E Saker, D.V.M., Ph.D., DACVN

I believe there are only 25 Certified Veterinary Nutritionists in the world that specialize in canine nutrition

 
 I checked that site and counted about 60; I also think that it's likely that not all veterinary nutritionists are members of that organization. Jessie is allergic to chicken; it's been confirmed through an elimination diet. It's been a while but I checked the "big" companies online for formulas that don't have chicken; Science Diet, Purina, Eukanuba, Nutro, and Pedigree and out of all those Eukanuba, Purina, and Nutro each have one; Purina's Pro Plan and One Sensitive System formulas are similar except Purina One has more grain. None of them have the amount of meat meal in the kibble I am feeding now and their canned foods that are labeled lamb, turkey, etc. also have chicken and are also not as good as the canned food I mix in her kibble which is 65 to 75% meat. I love the food she's eating but I've been wondering about the ability of small companies to achieve the correct nutritional balance in their foods which is why I started this thread.