Dog Community

Pet Lovers Dog Food Question

Posted : 6/24/2006 6:43:30 PM

Ok I read through the thread of "Trying too pick a good dog food any help?" That helped a little but I have an experience of my own, and many questions.

We got our puppy from the humane society when he was 2 1/2 mo old. We found what we thought to be the best food for him at the time which was "Chicken Soup for the Puppy Lovers" HE liked this new food, and we didn't seem to have a problem with it. We did have to switch him to the adult food because he just grew to fast (78 lbs and 9 mo old) I'm not sure when we started having difficulty with his stools becoming a bit on the runny side, but they did. The vet had us switch to Purina ProPlan for Sensitive skin and stomach. We haven't had a problem with runny stools since.

However, we did discover a lump on the dog's jaw. It is not connected to bone or anything. We took him to the vet today who thinks it might just be something stuck in there and full of puss, but can't take him until Wed as this growth doesn't seem to affect the dog.
When I told my friend this he said that when he was growing up he had lots of dogs, and none of them had tumors or cancer like dogs do today. He says that the majority of pet foods out there spray their food with rancid oil to make it taste better to the dog so they will just dig in and eat it. I admit, he seems to prefer the Purina to Chicken Soup.

While at the vet's I talked to a lady selling Blue Buffalo who says she on gives her dogs Blue Buffalo because it is the best one out there for the dogs. They have brown rice, real meat, not byproducts, and no corn as a filler. She informed me that corn has a cancer causing agent in it and after feeding it to dogs day in and day out that they will get cancer. My old Short haired Pointer died of cancer, and all my dad would feed him was Purina Dog Chow, but healthy dog food wasn't a big thing back then.

So questions. 1. Is any of this true? Do they spray the food with rancid oil? How can you tell? 2. Is there good brand of food out there that does not have corn as a "filler" in the food? 3. If other brands are similar to Chicken Soup, will they make my dog have the runs again?

Last question. What about cooking from home. My friend feeds his dogs nothing but people food. a lb of ground beef with some brown rice, peas, and carrots, and the dog is as healthy as ever. He's an old dog too going on 15 years and just as spry as if he were 3. If I decide to switch my dog to a people food diet, how much food do I need to feed him a day?
Any good recipes out there?

glenmar

Posted : 6/24/2006 7:02:44 PM

I won't comment on whether or not Purina sprays crap on the kibble, cuz I honestly don't know.

I home cook for my crew. They eat Innova in the mornings and either homecooked or raw for dinner. I'm always happy to share the recipe, but please know that it's a little more than just meat and stuff....boneless meat MUST be supplemented with calcium for skeletal health. I do ask that in return for the recipe folks *consider* making a donation to the MS Walk.....that can still be done for this year, or for next come about December.

shamrockmommy

Posted : 6/24/2006 8:25:38 PM

I think the "corn causes cancer" is complete bull. Does she have a source for this 'information'?

Blue Buffalo may be *the one* food for her dogs, but all dogs do differently on different foods. You'll have to try it and see. I think her using scare tactics to talk you into switching to BB was wrong of her, bu tthat's JMO.

There are better foods than Purina out there- you just have to try them and see if they work for your dog. Some dogs actually do better on the 'cheaper' foods. There are a few people here who have tried the holistic brands and had terrible luck with them. Their dogs do great on things like Purina.

Keep a notebook when you feed foods- write down the dates and keep track of how they did on each food to help you determine to continue using it or try something else.

[linkhttp://www.dogfoodproject.com]www.dogfoodproject.com[/link] will help you out a lot when it comes to ingredients and finding a better dog food.

Best wishes and try not to let others scare you with their misinformation.

losinsusan

Posted : 6/24/2006 8:36:54 PM

Hi -spraying food with rancid oil! I seriously doubt that crap. I do not even believe the lowest quality grocery brands would do such a thing. But I am one of those people that likes to see the good in others and tries to have faith in companies to not do such horrid things. I know I probably think the tooth fairy is coming by soon too. I work for Purina on the weekend. I am glad that you have had good results with Sensitive Skin and Stomach. Its protein source is first and its Salmon. It has very small kibble sizing because that is easier on the digestive system for a sensitive dog. I have started seeing Blue Buffalo demo's in Petsmart while I am working. I have met two of the ladies so far. I liked them both very much. They seemed to enjoy the job and enjoyed the product they are promoting. I DO NOT believe that corn is cancer causing in dogs. Period! Years ago all dogs ate corn based diets and you I think we saw less cancer then then we do now with better foods available to us. I often ask WHY? I do not have the answer to that. I would assume since cancer is so much more common in us now, and our animals share our enviorments with us, they also suffer from so many of the same ailments we do. They do drink our water, eat at least some of our foods, breathe our air and live in our homes with the vapors of new furniture, carpets, blankets etc. That is why I think cancer is found in dogs more now. Not corn. In recent years Corn has been getting a bad rap. Purina has told us it is still a good source of carbs and energy for dogs. Just so its not on the top of your list of ingredients and just so your dog hasn't been proven to have an allergy to corn. And even then we offer at Purina alternatives to that also. Something for everyone, and something at every price point.

jessies_mom

Posted : 6/24/2006 10:39:55 PM

I think one of the reasons more dogs seem to have cancer is because vets are better at diagnosing it. Also, when a breed is popular there is irresponsible breeding to make money from selling puppies so dogs of a poor genetic backround are bred which probably explains the prevalence of cancer in Goldens and Boxers. I agree with shamrockmommy and losinsusan; corn does not cause cancer; it does give my dog loose stools though so I don't feed food with corn. I hope the lump on your dog's jaw isn't anything serious; let us know what the vet says when you take him.

sandra_slayton

Posted : 6/24/2006 11:23:52 PM

I can't see how corn would cause cancer in dogs any more than in chickens, cows, horses, humans, all who eat corn or corn products.. I think that was a line of BS and it is stuff like this that causes so darn much confusion.

On another board I am on, one came looking for information about surgery for luxating patella. I told all about KayCee's operations and then someone came on behind me and said their dog had luxating patella and torn ACL and 6 months on EsterC totally cured them both. Someone else said that Glucosamine/MSM would have done it faster, it was NOT a band aid, but a cure. No way. If that were true, KayCee's other knee would never had gone bad as she was on the Glucosamine/MSM/Chon for over a year before her other knee gave. If it would cure a bad knee, why wouldn't it stop it to begin with. The first poster was thrilled that even tho her vet said her friend's dog needed surgery, she would tell her friend the dog didn't need it after all--EsterC and Glucosamine/MSM would cure the luxating patella. That dog can end up in much worse condition because of what the friend read and belived from a couple of posters.

On another board one r eported that DE would cure heartworms...she had two friends that cured their dogs of heartworms using DE. Well, I looked and looked at sites about DE and all it's uses and curing heartworms was never listed. I did not see how it would--it goes in the stomache and out the other end. The sites did say it would get rid of intestanal parasites. But hearworms are not in the instestines. And I do belive if it would cure heartworms, it would be in big bold letters on the sites CURE FOR HEART WORMS. I just hope and pray that someone whose dog has heartworms doesn't read that post and use DE and then lose the dog because of it.

My point here is, you can't always belive all these unfounded statements, either on the net, or from sales folks....espcially if they are trying to push their own product.

ron2

Posted : 6/25/2006 7:30:36 AM

I agree with you and here's what I'd like to add

Not only are vets better at spotting cancer, with new tools and treatments, we, as an owner population, are spotting problems sooner and taking our dogs to the vet sooner. And, we are taking them to the vet, rather than letting a problem run on and then take them out behind the barn with grandpa's WWII .45 service side-arm. On top of that, questionable breeding practices. On top of that, the huge proliferation of pet animals. One of my "pet" theories is that a percentage of a population will develope cancer, especially if it is from a breed that has show a tendency to develope cancer. As the population of that breed increases, so does the number of cases of cancer, though the percentage remains the same. Example, let's say that 20 percent of Yellow Labs may develope cancer. 20 percent of 100 is 20. 20 percent of 1000 is 200.

I could be wrong but, without a definite statistical study, the numbers fit. I don't think corn had anything to do with it. As for rancid oil, I have no comment on that. A coyote, and this is documented behavior, will scavenge a wolf's kill and bury it. A few days later, it will come back and eat this stuff, which has been going rancid all along. That's a wild dog meal.

Melissa Camiel

Posted : 6/25/2006 9:46:53 AM

I thought spraying the kibble with rancid oil was entirely true?? Isn't that what "animal fat" is on the ingredient label? I've read a lot of articles that say that they use leftover rancid restaurant grease and other stuff and spray it on the kibble to make it more palatable.

kennel_keeper

Posted : 6/25/2006 11:13:51 AM

Some dog foods do have "sprayed-on" fat to enhance palatability and alot of times this fat, is in fact, rendered grease, fats, and oils from previously "used" sources. This makes the foods more attractive to dogs so it looks like it's SO good, that the the dogs gobble it down and the owner thinks, "HEY, this must be great food, look how Buster just snarfs it up". In actuallity, if it weren't for the "flavor enhancers", they probably would eat it at all.

I have a hard time with people that feel they have to berate others (or other products) just to build themselves (or their products) up! I wouldn't trust someone that uses those tactics to sell products. I wonder if BB knows she's spreading such rediculous propaganda. It certainly doesn't look good for them to have someone using such practices.

sandra_slayton

Posted : 6/25/2006 11:55:19 AM

I have had doubts about so many things I have read. I have never believed that old resturant, rancid oil was sprayed on dog food. Rancid oil stinks and surely people would smell that stench when they opened dog food. Even shortening sitting in the cabnet for a while strarts to smell bad. No dog food I have ever opened (be it Purian Dog Chow, Purina Puppy Chow, Purina Fit & Trim, or Science diet) has ever smelled bad, in fact I find the smell rather plesant.

And as for using animals that have been dead and piled up for days, do you have any idea what the stench would be? I can't for a minute believe that people would haul maggot ridden, stomach turning , rotten meat to a plant and then people would actually dog food out of it. Dogs might not mind eating this stuff (I don't think mine would eat carcass that smelled like that--roll in it maybe, but eat it, no) but I can't see people working with that stuff.

And as for road kill, I can't feature a couple of guys driving along watching the road for dead skunks, possems, coons, dogs & cats, stopping to scoop them up, and taking a truck load of smash, squashed animals to the nearest dog food making plant.

I think some of this stories got started much like the Swiffer mop story and spread and folks believed them and kept telling them..I believed the Swiffer mop story at first. I STILL see the story posted on dog boards and STILL get e-mails about it.
And the Swiffer mop story is just one of hundreds I get.

To be honest, it would not surprise me at all if these stories were not started in the dog food industry itself to try to discredit other brands of dog food, much like politians with their fiflthy mud slinging..saying very nasty things about the opposition, and singing their own praises & making promises that they seldom keep if elected.

Denali

Posted : 6/25/2006 1:43:31 PM

In all honesty, I grew up less than a mile from the Purina plant here in Denver. When they are cooking, the entire neighborhood knows it, and I have to say it has a rather unpleasant smell. There was even a petition going around the neighborhood to get Purina to move, but I guess it fell through or something. The smell from the factory always made me wonder if it was really good for my dog or not. Wonder if they give tours. Never thought about it until now.

Ok so back to the questions...Is Purina ProPlan an ok thing to continue feeding my puppy, or should I perhaps look into another food? Any recommendations?

Also, if we try out different food on our dog how often do you switch? We often buy the largest bag we can 25-30 lbs. Is switching every time too often? Should we continue to mix the food before going on a total switch?

shamrockmommy

Posted : 6/25/2006 1:54:07 PM

And as for using animals that have been dead and piled up for days, do you have any idea what the stench would be? I can't for a minute believe that people would haul maggot ridden, stomach turning , rotten meat to a plant and then people would actually dog food out of it. Dogs might not mind eating this stuff (I don't think mine would eat carcass that smelled like that--roll in it maybe, but eat it, no) but I can't see people working with that stuff.

Well, Sandra you'll probably loose your cookies when I tell you this. DH flies for the Navy for a living and get temporarily stationed in Omaha nebraska. There is a rendering plant just north of where they stay. I had the extreme displeasure of stopping by there for a bit to pick up DH. The stench was UNbelievable. Like nothing I have ever smelled in my life and nothing I want to smell ever again.

This is where they take in carcasses and make meat meal out of them. The trucks that bring the D.O.A's are open top semi truck trailers. They park them in rows adnd they sit for a good while before it's their turn to be processed.

So.. for that part at least, it is true that rotting animals are used to make meals and whatnots. Bleh.

shamrockmommy

Posted : 6/25/2006 1:56:24 PM

And as for road kill, I can't feature a couple of guys driving along watching the road for dead skunks, possems, coons, dogs & cats, stopping to scoop them up, and taking a truck load of smash, squashed animals to the nearest dog food making plant.

Our county puts these unfortunate creatures in our landfill with the rest of the trash. The euthanized pets from the shelter also wind up there. I can't speak for what other counties/cities do but I think the amount of pets and road kill in foods is minimal. And even then,it's pretty easy to avoid- no animal by-products, no meat-meals, etc. Mystery meats, etc.

sandra_slayton

Posted : 6/25/2006 2:28:55 PM

I had to laugh about the smell in the air becuase when our boys were in school, I spent all day Wednesday making loaves of bread, pans of dinner rolls and pans of sweet rolls. I would have bowls of dough on first rising, pans of dough on rising, pans of stuff in the oven, cookie racks of stuff coolling. The boys said they could smell that wonderful smell when they turned the corner onto our street.

On the other hand, on the days i made kraut and pork roast, they noticed a "stink" when they turned the corner and knew what was going to be for supper. Said I made the entire neighborhood stink when I cooked kraut. (I start with canned and add shredded cabbage, some onion, some green peppers, some stewed tomatoes, and a pinch of sugar and cook for 3-4 hours on low. Do the roast in the oven.) Dang, I am making myself hungry.

Luvntzus

Posted : 6/25/2006 3:09:20 PM

There's no one food that's "the best". [&o] I guess that is the job of a sales rep though- to make you believe that their food is the end all be all and everything is falls drastically short.

As far as my opinions- I don't like any Purina foods, including Pro Plan. Lots of people have good results with it, but I just don't feel comfortable with "animal" fat, animal digest, any type of gluten, etc.

Blue Buffalo is a good food, and the only food other than Nutro Ultra at Petsmart that I would feed. Better foods IMO are:

Solid Gold
Nature's Variety
Innova
California Natural
Timberwolf Organics

Of those, I would recommend California Natural if your dog is having digestive or skin issues. I just started my Shih Tzu on it for those reasons and so far he's doing great! It's a very simple food with only 1 protein source and very few other ingredients. They have a Herring and Sweet Potato formula that's similar to Pro Plan sensitive skin, but healthier in my opinion. There's also a chicken & rice and lamb & rice formula.