Dog Community

8% Fiber?

Posted : 4/23/2007 7:38:46 PM

Ingredients aside, what do you all think of this?

Protein (minimum)...................25.0%
Fat (minimum).......................12.0%
Moisture (maximum)................10.0%
Fiber (maximum)..................... 8.0%
Ash (maximum)...................... 7.9%
Calcium (actual)..................... 1.0%
Phosphorus (actual)................. 0.6%
Calcium/Phosphorus ratio.........1.6:1.0
Digestible Energy.........3600 KCAL/kg

cc431

Posted : 4/23/2007 7:57:46 PM

Fiber seems way too high, maybe intended for an overweight dog (which could make matters even worse)?

sooner

Posted : 4/23/2007 8:00:32 PM

It's a large breed food, but the original, puppy and senior have the same fiber %.

I think I know the answer to this, but what happens with too much fiber?

Cazzy

Posted : 4/23/2007 8:08:19 PM

I dont think I have ever seen a food with that much fiber...I would think you might get a LOT of poop with that food...LOL...what brand is that?

cc431

Posted : 4/23/2007 8:12:29 PM

Fiber can impede the transfer of nutrients so your dog doesn't get full benefit of the ration. Fiber is typically in commercial ration expansion fiber which when moistened expands. 8% is high to begin with, after expansion (not knowing the source so this is guess work) this ration could be in the neighborhood of 75% carb. I would pre-moisten this before serving so expansion is done outside the stomach and supplement with added meat.

sooner

Posted : 4/23/2007 8:24:17 PM

Cazzy, it's an alternative grain-freehttp://www.firstmate.com/platinum/fishpotatolargenew.htm

I have two formulas for figuring carb % - one came out to 45%, one was 53%.

I'm doing an expansion experiment with the samples. I wouldn't let it soak long enough to fully expand before feeding though. I've read that you shouldn't soak kibble, just add water and feed.

Misskiwi67

Posted : 4/23/2007 8:34:52 PM

6% is a normal fiber level. 12% is the MINIMUM for a weight loss diet.. so I don't think 8% is high at all.

What are the fiber sources in the ingredient list?

sooner

Posted : 4/23/2007 8:37:11 PM

Just beet pulp. I've been looking around and most every food is 3-4%.

Boomer does well with beet pulp. But that much beet pulp?!?! His last food was 3%.

Brenda Hicks

Posted : 4/23/2007 9:30:24 PM

Wow,only 8%! Myrt's food is 17.1% crude fiber!
The low fiber foods just run right thru Myrt.
I have read alot of

ost here about dogs with food allergies but none on dogs with fiber responsive dieases.

papillon806

Posted : 4/23/2007 9:39:46 PM

8% fiber is not a problem...it really depends on what the fiber is coming from primarily (an ingredient list would help). It's really not that much fiber in the scheme of things. In the one research study they did last year (to evaluate high protein diets vs high fiber diets for weight loss), the high fiber diet had 24% protein and 38% fiber (Yes! that is correct!), while the high protein diet had 43% protein and still had 30% fiber (yeap!). While these were "study based" diets, it just shows that high fiber really isn't a problem. The worst that happends is it will produce larger stools, but the extra fiber is actually very good for the GI tract. People get caught up on "highly digestible" foods as being the best for pets when in reality the lack of fiber is doing more harm than good. Companies now are just formulating foods to produce smaller stools as that is what the public wants...

sooner

Posted : 4/23/2007 9:49:02 PM

ORIGINAL: papillon806

8% fiber is not a problem...it really depends on what the fiber is coming from primarily (an ingredient list would help)

Potato flakes, Herring meal, Beet pulp, Chicken fat (Preserved with mixed tocopherols), Fish oil, Dicalcium phosphate, Choline Chloride, Salt, Calcium Propionate, Sorbic acid (used as preservative), Vitamin C, Yucca plant extract, Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Thiamin, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine (Vitamin B compound), Vitamin B12, D-Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Iron, Zinc, Maganese, Cu, Iodine, Cobalt, Selenium, Glucanase, Protease, Amylase, Cellulase, (Bacillus subtilis fermentation extract), Glucosamine, MSM

sooner

Posted : 4/23/2007 10:14:28 PM

ORIGINAL: cc431

Fiber can impede the transfer of nutrients so your dog doesn't get full benefit of the ration. Fiber is typically in commercial ration expansion fiber which when moistened expands. 8% is high to begin with, after expansion (not knowing the source so this is guess work) this ration could be in the neighborhood of 75% carb. I would pre-moisten this before serving so expansion is done outside the stomach and supplement with added meat.

How much does kibble usually expand? This stuff barely changed after an hour. That's good, right?

(I cut out the original size so the difference would be noticeable)

Misskiwi67

Posted : 4/23/2007 11:43:40 PM

ORIGINAL: cc431

Fiber can impede the transfer of nutrients so your dog doesn't get full benefit of the ration.

It takes a LOT of fiber to impede transfer of nutrients, and fermentable fibers like beet pulp can actually stimulate villous proliferation which increases absorptive surface area. I really don't think the 8% fiber will be an issue in this case.

I say try the food and let us know what you think!

cc431

Posted : 4/23/2007 11:54:10 PM

ORIGINAL: sooner Potato flakes, Herring meal, Beet pulp, Chicken fat (Preserved with mixed tocopherols), Fish oil, Dicalcium phosphate, Choline Chloride, Salt, Calcium Propionate, Sorbic acid (used as preservative), Vitamin C, Yucca plant extract, Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Thiamin, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine (Vitamin B compound), Vitamin B12, D-Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Iron, Zinc, Maganese, Cu, Iodine, Cobalt, Selenium, Glucanase, Protease, Amylase, Cellulase, (Bacillus subtilis fermentation extract), Glucosamine, MSM

Potato as a #1, beet pulp #3, more plant matter down the line (yucca...no pun a). I don't no about this stuff Sooner to be honest with you. I would stay away simply for the potato up front never mind beet pulp as #3. Fat content is on the low side.
The pictures are neat, but not sure if an hour is enough to throughly soak in. Try leaving a few a few pieces soaked a few hours, I think they'll double in size. I think for a kibble something like original Purina Pro Plan would far better a choice than a the one above.

jennie_c_d

Posted : 4/24/2007 3:52:58 PM

I've actually considered First Mate, but I'm not sure about it. The ingredients don't "sound" as great as a lot of other foods (I'm sorry, I'm an emotional dog food buyer) and it's pretty pricey. Then again, my dogs might do really well on that type of simple diet.

If you do feed it, I'd really like to hear how they do. How does it smell?