all life stage foods... split from raw for puppies

ORIGINAL: ottoluv

 I don't see where she advocates all kibble diets.  Do you have any links to support this? 

 
off of pet diets:
 
"Cats do not require canned food or a particular meat ingredient in their diets. In fact dry food is more economical and feeding it ad libitum better fits the cats natural feeding behavior of small frequent meals throughout the day, and may be more beneficial towards dental health."
 
I know she feels the same for dogs but I cannot find the article.
 
Please feel free to edit my post if it is off topic

Jenns, I'm sorry but IMO you are taking things out of context and misquoting what she says in that answer.  For example she doesn't say any food that passes is good for your dog, she says it's worth trying instead of things that don't even do the trial.  She uses garbage in response to it's use in the question.  She also is explaining why having a grain first doesn't actually mean a food is "bad" and infact if it makes sense if it's the only or major carb used if you take into account percentages.  How exactly is she getting paid "big bucks" by the industry?  Every expert gets honorariums from lectures they perform and universities and they are frequently aid by "big" companies in all scientific community as small companies could never foot that bill.  Most CME is sponsored by "big" companies all over the country.  In addition, any food company would be wise to pay her to consult given her expertise.  The response on that page is hardly a list of her beliefs, it's just a "common" language response to a question.  Again, note the pubmed page of her scientific publications.  It's interesting to me that people discount her "experience" over twenty years as a researcher.   Remember that most of the commonly held beliefs people have about raw and super premiums have yet to be validated in randomized controlled trials.  In fact, some have been disproven.  At least she does research to back up what she says instead of trying to "educate" others with anecdotal evidence which is the that with the lowest validity scientifically.  I wish instead of saying "in my experience" or "I think" in regards to some of this nutrition discussion actual evidence would be presented making a more interesting conversation IMO.
 
Edit: the above post does not say she advocates all kibble diets, just reasons why it's ok.  People say all the time that canned is better and there is no evidence to suppport this as is there no evidence it's better for teeth.  The only scientific study that shows anything of that nature shows that neither kibble or wet gets rid of plaque, but the tartar accumulation with dry is slightly less which is what I'm sure she is referring to with "may " be more beneficial towards dental health.

ORIGINAL: ottoluv

Jenns, I'm sorry but IMO you are taking things out of context and misquoting what she says in that answer.  For example she doesn't say any food that passes is good for your dog, she says it's worth trying instead of things that don't even do the trial.  She uses garbage in response to it's use in the question.  She also is explaining why having a grain first doesn't actually mean a food is "bad" and infact if it makes sense if it's the only or major carb used if you take into account percentages.  How exactly is she getting paid "big bucks" by the industry?  Every expert gets honorariums from lectures they perform and universities and they are frequently aid by "big" companies in all scientific community as small companies could never foot that bill.  Most CME is sponsored by "big" companies all over the country.  In addition, any food company would be wise to pay her to consult given her expertise.  The response on that page is hardly a list of her beliefs, it's just a "common" language response to a question.  Again, note the pubmed page of her scientific publications.  It's interesting to me that people discount her "experience" over twenty years as a researcher.   Remember that most of the commonly held beliefs people have about raw and super premiums have yet to be validated in randomized controlled trials.  In fact, some have been disproven.  At least she does research to back up what she says instead of trying to "educate" others with anecdotal evidence which is the that with the lowest validity scientifically.  I wish instead of saying "in my experience" or "I think" in regards to some of this nutrition discussion actual evidence would be presented making a more interesting conversation IMO.

 
I do not want to start a premium vs raw vs non premium debate here, just to say that as I read through the FAQ's on her site, I realize I fundamentally disagree with a lot of her views, especially that the foods from the big four companies are the best - and yes she has come out and said this, I am not misquoting it.  She completely ignores the fact that these companies also have marketing departments and she consistently badmouths small companies that many of us on here feed products and have great results with.   She has stated completely wrong and inaccurate information even about the companies that she pushes, like saying the big companies are better because they manufacture their own products.  What??[&:]  (this is in the FAQ section on her site)
 
As for research, you can technically find a study to back up almost any point you want to make.  And since she has never used any of the super premiums in any of her studies than she technically hasn't done the research.

Here's a recent recipe from petdiets.com. I would surely think someone with 20 yrs experience could do better than this, but I've yet to see a veterinary nutritionist think outside the box, they always lan a recipe as if it were a kibble.
 
Rice (white, long-grain, regular, cooked) 3-7/8cup
Oil (vegetable, corn) 4-1/4 tsp
Chicken (breast, cooked) 5-1/8 oz

PLUS: must add these human supplements:
1-1/8 tablets of One a Day Maximum Multivitamin/mineral supplement
3-7/8 of Posture caplet (600 mg elemental calcium)
1-3/8 tablets of generic choline tablet (600 mg tablet w/250 mg choline)
1 tsp of Morton Lite Salt Mixture
1/8 tsp of Morton Salt Substitute
3/4 tablet of generic zinc gluconate tablet (250 mg tablet w/30 mg elemental zinc)

Bake the chicken in the oven and cook the white rice without adding salt. Cut the chicken into small pieces. Place the white rice in a bowl and add the oil and the supplements. Mix well. Place cut chicken on the rice and serve.

Totally off topic, but I appreciate you guys disagreeing without attacking.  Carry on! []

I'm with Jenns on this one,for the exact reasons she has already stated. Whenever i read anything written by RR,i find myself grimacing through the whole thing. I would take anything written by her with a huge grain of salt.It just happens i dont agree with anything she says.[&:]

ORIGINAL: Edie

I'm with Jenns on this one,for the exact reasons she has already stated. Whenever i read anything written by RR,i find myself grimacing through the whole thing. I would take anything written by her with a huge grain of salt.It just happens i dont agree with anything she says.[&:]

Internet education beats 20 years of research experience and a PhD... I love it.

Why am I going to vet school again? I might as well just memorize the great dane lady and the whole dog journal and start calling myself an expert...

Internet education beats 20 years of research experience and a PhD... I love it.

Why am I going to vet school again? I might as well just memorize the great dane lady and the whole dog journal and start calling myself an expert...

I agree, but what probably bothers Edie and bothers me is that she has said that it doesn't matter whether a dog gets its protein from corn or meat; most of us prefer the protein source is based on meat.

Eh eh, ladies.  Play nice......

Eh eh, ladies. Play nice......

 
  I'm sorry if it's what I posted.

Nope, no names, no finger pointing....just a gentle reminder that this is NOT one of those threads where I dare not tread! []

what probably bothers Edie and bothers me is that she has said that it doesn't matter whether a dog gets its protein from corn or meat; most of us prefer the protein source is based on meat.

Yep that,and that she recommends science diet et al as if they are the be all and end all of all foods [:'(] and bags the little guys like innova etc [&:] And like i said before,everything else that jenns has stated.

Just because this person has 20 years experience doesnt mean we have to agree with her findings or treat them like the gospel truth which lean toward her own personal beliefs anyway... Just something about her rubs me up the wrong way,thats all.

ORIGINAL: Edie
Just because this person has 20 years experience doesnt mean we have to agree with her findings or treat them like the gospel truth which lean toward her own personal beliefs anyway... Just something about her rubs me up the wrong way,thats all.

True, but when everyone here expects me to have an open mind... I sortof expect others to do the same.

The great dane lady rubs me the wrong way, but I don't automatically discount Eagle pack just because her name is stamped across it in big bold letters... I only ignore those parts that I know are false, like the enzymes and yeast etc.

There is a lot of good information in that article about how puppy foods and adult foods are different. It has nothing to do with Science Diet or any other kibble food, and wasn't the reason I chose that article to post. I actually had no idea who she was even, all I knew is that she was a nutritionist who happened to write a stellar article that answered questions I'm not smart enough to answer.

The great dane lady rubs me the wrong way

At least we have one thing in common []

ORIGINAL: Edie

The great dane lady rubs me the wrong way

At least we have one thing in common []

So who DO you like??? Or is it sortof like picking a presidential candidate, where they all suck and you just wish you could take bits of each and put them into a new person?