Hi, I would just like to add my own concerns about Timberwolf Organics. I would appreciate it if you could answer me, Chris, but if not, that's cool too. I'm just adding to the discussion.
I've read through all the posts about the non-disclosure of the manufacturer, and in fact Chris put my major concern to rest: why it is proprietary info in the first place. Concern about recipe safety or whatnot makes a lot of sense, whereas I was almost convinced that the only reason TWO would have to possibly want to hide the info is if the manufacturer was Menu Foods or a similar company associated with low-quality foods. Which it still very well may be, but I guess we'll never know.
Here's the new part: I believe TWO when they say they are "not part of the recall." I'm also giving them the benefit of the doubt in that in secrecy they are only trying to protect their techniques, that they do their best to keep their food safe, and that they believe 100% that it is safe. The problem is that recently Chicken Soup and Natural Balance, two well respected, "natural", "high-end" foods got some of their products added to the recall. While I do not really trust NB (and some do completely), Chicken Soup is a product that I would feed without qualms if my regular brand became unavailable. Yet, because they used external manufacturers for their products (as TWO does), rice protein was put in their food, they say, without their knowledge or consent! I'm sure that before the recall, both manufacturers would have assured me they had full control over their products - ingredients, quality, etc.... It makes me wonder what else gets put in the canned food I get, that the companies don't know or don't care about.
The point I'm trying to make is, even with TWO's best efforts, the simple fact that an honest food is not on the recall list does not mean it is safe. Chicken Soup and Natural Balance were on the non-affected brands list for quite a while. They had no wheat in the ingredients. And all of a sudden a new threat emerges, and there was nothing the companies could do about it (or so I want to believe). I *hope* that TWO has complete control over the quality, ingredients, etc... over their food, but how could I know that? If their manufacturer is one of the ones affected by the recalls (they do manufacture "specialty" foods), for example, apparently the company that pays them doesn't even have as much control as they think they do.
I'm not trying to get Chris to name the company, but I would like to get my fears put to rest. If I was deciding whether or not to get TWO, based on this issue alone I would probably not get it. If they were manufactured by American Nutrition, who I know for sure messes with the ingredients, I would probably not get it - and guess what? For all I know, they are. Unfortunately, since I already purchased nearly a 3 month supply, I'm going to go ahead and feed it, and hope for the best. Still, I would appreciate it if Chris explained just how they know that a new ingredient with who-knows-what-poison isn't going to be announced as having knowingly or unknowingly been put in their food.
Sorry for the long post, but this was all a bit of a shocker. I was actually running an allergy elimination test with the NB for my two animals (but according to the dates, my food was a 1-2 months too early), and my cat got very sick around the end (and bounced back as he transitioned back to his regular food - but still not quite the same). I'm very lucky in that the trials ended right before the contaminants started coming in, or it could have been much worse. I've been searching for information for hours on-line about it... where I discovered my ex-food Chicken Soup was affected, Innova cans (my regular supplement) were manufactured by Menu Foods and
could have been affected, and Timberwolf, my food of choice at the moment, apparently was trying to hide its manufacturer. Right when I was feeling so smug after not having seen a single food I would have fed on the gluten recall list...
Well, thanks for reading through my little rant.
I do have another couple minor questions for Chris: (if he hasn't given up and left in the middle of the above, that is):
1. You said your company does not do animal testing (as reason for why you sent out varying kibble size), but you perform AAFCO Feeding Tests for every one of your formulas - how is that not a feeding test?
2. If you change the kibble size and stuff, do you also change the proportions of the ingredients? And what's this about the labels being wrong? Is that still the case?
And finally, here is my experience of the food so far: (I've only been feeding the Lamb/ Apples for a week or so now after the transition period - to my 90lb lab with inhalant allergies):
* I ordered online and received it without problems. The bags looked great and were well sealed - and man did that Lamb/ Apples formula smell good - reminded me of pumpkin spices.
* The bags are really cool, but they don't have any info on what to do after opening. What is the open shelf life? And how do you best store it? It would be cool if they had a zip-lock, to close them easily. Innova recommends not dumping their food out of the bag into a container to take advantage of the protective packaging - I assume this is even more true for TWO. But the packaging is relatively hard to roll up to keep the air out and definitely too big for most chip clips.
* My dog loves the food - it seems. Not as much as canned food, but as much as or more than any other dry food he's had. I also like it - a lot (yes, I personally taste my most of my pets' food out of curiosity. Call me weird, but at the same time I can safely say I won't feed them what I wouldn't eat myself.) Even my cat loves my dog's food. I barely started mixing in the Serenghetti, so it's hard to tell if he likes his food. I wish you had a canned or frozen grain-less cat food, too.
* The food is friggin cheap!!! OK, so Innova dry is still the winner for me for best value in quality, but considering that TWO is the
best food I can find right now (leaving aside the problems already discussed) easily available to me, it's a pretty good deal. I counted it up, each TWO calorie costs about 150% of each Innova calorie at my prices, which is not bad for "as good as I can go". I consider TWO better than some other high-meat-percentage foods because it has bothered to do the animal testing and has had more good results, as far as I can tell from the Internet (and of course, it has nothing I wouldn't eat or that my dog is likely to be allergic to, save the one corn ingredient).
Like someone has pointed out in a previous post, TWO customers are likely to be the picky ones. I consider TWO as the best available - which is one of the reasons I was so taken aback by the secrecy about the manufacturer. Unfortunately, that is not the only problem they have that I would not expect of a food their caliber. Although I haven't experienced any of the ordering/ customer service/ shipping/ freshness problems as some of the others have, I am very disappointed in the lack of reliable information on their website.
There are several blatant contradictions, such as the Black Forest formula's contradiction between the Calcium analysis and the description that a) quotes a different calcium level than in the analysis and b) says that the calcium/ phosphorus ratio is specifically greater for this formula, but the analysis is pretty much the same as for the other foods. This makes me unsure about how trust-able anything the website says is: either the description is making false claims, or the analysis is incorrect. I even mentioned this in an email to TWO - they replied to my other question and ignored this one. Similarly, their recommendations about which formulas make better BARF mixers or whatnot seem completely unrelated to the calcium and other values, and they can't seem to get the percentage right of the fresh meats that they would recommend mixing with their foods.
Finally, just a comment that Chris might find useful:
I really like the idea of a dry food with a higher meat content. With the myth of too much protein seemingly debunked, the more meat, the better, it seems. However, you only have 3 formulas that you say are 50%+ meat meal. Of those, two are poultry based, and one is fish based (with lamb as a supporter). One of the poultry-based ones has corn (yeah, I know it says, but I couldn't find anything on line that blue corn is safe), so I can't feed it.
The other thing I like is your idea of different protein sources rotated. The thing is, you only have two "base" proteins: fish meal and chicken meal, and every food has some salmon in it. The idea of actually rotating the entire protein source, at least on occasion, is appealing to me, especially with the possibility of undetected minor food allergies. So my options, if I stay with your high-meat foods, are just the Wild & Natural and the Lamb/ Apples. Not that I'm complaining, that's still 2x more options than I'd get with another high-meat brand.
Well, thanks for reading through this... hope I contributed something to somebody...
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