Timberwolf Organics - Problems

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I loved the idea of the food...too bad it caused so many problems for my pup.

If you don't trust them now, why did you trust them before?  I guess paranoia goes a long way.  TWO has stated that their food is not affected by the recall.  They have stated that they cannot legally disclose who makes their food.  These are the facts.  There's no dishonesty unless you want to make the implication that the above statements are direct lies, which is a dangerous accusation.  I take the company at its word as I personally have no reason not to.  My dog responds best to their foods after trying Innova, Canidae, and EP.  I'm not about to punish my dog because of service issues others have claimed or because of TWO's legal responsibilties.  Maybe those responsibilties will change.  Until then I guess those currently feeding TWO can decide what is most important to them and their dog.  Personally I think it is insane to compromise your dogs satisfaction (and to some extent your own) for suppositions that are unfounded; suppositions that did not exist before this recall started.  As far as service and QC issues, all companies have those.  Some get noticed, some don't.  One person's idea of "satisfaction" is very different from anothers and sometimes no matter what you do, some people will never be satisfied.

Hi Guys!

Chris from TWO here...

This will be the one and only post that I will make concerning this topic, as I see that it has continued from a thread that has already been closed once.

I come here as a representative of the Timberwolf Organcs line of pet foods.  I work for a company that sells pet food.  We have a large following, and many satisfied customers.  The thing I think some people don't realize is that those of us that act as official representatives of the company are also people.  We are consumers, and we are pet owners.  I have three fantastic dogs and one very large cat... and I love all of them like my kids.  They are the closest I will get for a very long time...

I understand your concerns when it comes to your pets.  When I heard that there was a pet food recall, I was at EPCOT, enjoying a day with some friends, and got an email from a customer (on my Blackberry).  I immediately forwarded that email to someone else for verification, and before I could get an answer I got another one.  I called the owner of the company for more information, and at this point it was still very early in the game... I found a nice quiet spot (hard to do in a Disney park []) and started researching the issue online.  I wasn't able to find much, other than there was a recall.  After about 45 minutes of reading the same (very scary) info over and over, I decided to end my visit to the park and head into the office. 

I spent a while researching the issue, and trying my best to address the concerns of our very nervous customers.  On Monday morning, I posted the message on the front page of our website saying that we were not affected by the recall, and I was sure that this would ease the mind of some customers.  It did, at first, and then I began receiving emails from those consumers less concerned about the recalled food, and more concerned about the whereabouts of our manufacturing facilities. 

Upon employment with Timberwolf, I signed a piece of paper called a "Non-Disclosure Agreement" and another one called a "Non-Compete Agreement."  By signing these documents, I agreed among other things:

1. Not to disclose the formula used to make our foods.
2. Not to share sensitivie company/formula related information with anyone without prior authorization from the CEO.
3. Not to disclose the manufacturing facility where our food is made.

I don't keep this information from you because I want to.  I am doing what I agreed to do.  As a pet owner, I see both sides of this argument, but at the end of the day the company I work for has an agreement with the mills that produce our food that keeps this information proprietary.

I don't come to this board to "spy" on people, and I don't come here to promote the product that we sell.  The reason I come here is to help customers and answer questions (sometimes not even related to the product we sell) and since I'm a pet owner as well, I come here to gain information. 

As I write this my cat is playing with some ribbon on the floor next to me... if something were to happen to Benji I would be heart-broken.  I understand how you guys feel.

Mark, the owner, has pets too.  If you read the info on our website, you will see that Timberwolf began because of Fang, one of Mark's dog.  Today, we have four of Fang's "kids" who hang out with us in the Timberwolf office everyday.  Some of you who have called have probably heard them in the background... these dogs eat nothing but Timberwolf products, that come straight from the same exact mill where you get your food...

This is the last thing I will say... it takes a lot to come here and post something and read 20 replies, most of which involve upset people.  I hear what you guys are saying, and believe me it gets communicated.  If you want me too I can tell you the reason why we have silver bags shipping out right now, which is directly related to the ingredients that were originally printed on the bag.  I can tell you why there were random kibble sizes in bags.  I can tell you the reason why we shipped bags with different sized kibble to test sizes... we tested them to see what YOU wanted.  We don't test on animals... because we don't think that is right.  So we send you out the food with the SAME original formula, slightly larger or smaller to get YOUR opinion.  If you guys don't want your opinion to be heard let me know...

I don't want to sound upset... because I'm not.  I just want to give you all the answers I can to all of your questions.  Please understand that anyone who emails me gets an answer... is it always the answer they want?  Maybe not... but I think it is an improvement from not having questions answered at all. 

Tell me what your problems are... email me your questions or concerns.  The phone number that I have posted with my contact info (407-802-7865) is my cell phone.  I answer that whenever it rings guys... whether it be during business hours, after hours or on the weekend.  Do I have to do that?  Of course not... I could give you my desk line and let you leave voice mails... but I don't want to.  I love to spend an hour at a time talking to my customers and hearing what they hate about us, or what they love about us.  You can call me and tell me 20 reasons why you hate me, the company I work for or the products we produce and I won't get upset or angry.  I'll listen... and do whatever I can to help.

I hope this finds you all well.  I look forward to hearing from you all...

Thanks,

Chris

**Edited to correct a spelling error.**

Thank you so much for the offer chris, we all are thankful to have you as part of this board.  I hope you don't get scared off or frustrated.  I think it's easy to forget that real people live behind these messages when you are staring at a computer screen.  Thank you again

Thank you for the response!  We recently started feeding the Ocean Blue to Sally and she adores it--we have had no problems, only good things to say......

First off, thank you for changing your avatar Chris.  Much less self promoting looking now! []
 
I closed the first thread because there was no topic to stay ON.  The thread had become just a collection of grumbles and gripes.  However I DID invite at least one forum member to start a new thread with an actual topic to discuss any issues that folks might have with TWO.  You are certainly welcome to post on idog, anytime that you wish.  Both as a pet owner and a rep of TWO.  The thread that got closed was not because of you, but because of others.
 
As I said, my only issue with TWO was the large, soft stools.  And when you have SIX german shepherds, minimizing stool size is important.  The dogs liked TWO, they looked good on TWO, but the output was just not acceptabe to me.  My cats on the other hand, flat out refused to eat the food.
 
I have had CS issues.....being ignored when I email with questions just ticks me off.  And that is likely something that you want to address within the company.  CS is critical to most of us, and feeling that we are being heard and our concerns addressed.
 
I have said many times that just because a food doesn't work for my crew doesn't make it a BAD food.  With six dogs, stool is a very big deal to me so I reject foods that cause larger stools.  That includes EP Holistique.  As I recall, the kibble size was pretty small as well......that's a GOOD thing for smaller dogs, but can be an issue with large breeds.  Most of mine actually took FOUR minutes to inhale their breakfast instead of the normal TWO with Innova.
 
One question I haven't been abe to get answered is why the need for the supplement?  If the food is nutritionally complete........
 
What I am getting from reading through this thread is that CONSISTENCY is important to folks....everything from the bag color to the size of the kibble.  While it might cost a little, instead of experimenting on the purchasing public, why not  select some "test" subjects?  Provide the food for a feeding trial to a select group of folks, with a variety of breeds, mixes and sizes of dogs and in varied geographic locations?  I personally consider a feeding trial to be a minimum of three months.  When I add something to my rotation, unless we have FAST issues, it's for that 3 months before I evaluate.  Certainly I watch for issues along the way, but I don't decide if a food is going to work or not for my crew before they've been eating it for 3 months.  And, maybe TWO would have worked for my guys had I stuck with that plan......but, after 4 bags the stools were still big and gross, and that was enough to make me stop when I did.   Just a thot.....maybe you'd be further ahead to do some actual "animal testing" this way.
 
Please know that you are welcome to post here, and if you feel the need to "self promote" because you've had internet problems or whatever, just email one of the mods and let US find a way to post it so that it doesn't seem so self serving.
 
 

ORIGINAL: littlesaint

If you don't trust them now, why did you trust them before? I guess paranoia goes a long way. TWO has stated that their food is not affected by the recall. They have stated that they cannot legally disclose who makes their food. These are the facts. There's no dishonesty unless you want to make the implication that the above statements are direct lies, which is a dangerous accusation. I take the company at its word as I personally have no reason not to. My dog responds best to their foods after trying Innova, Canidae, and EP. I'm not about to punish my dog because of service issues others have claimed or because of TWO's legal responsibilties. Maybe those responsibilties will change. Until then I guess those currently feeding TWO can decide what is most important to them and their dog. Personally I think it is insane to compromise your dogs satisfaction (and to some extent your own) for suppositions that are unfounded; suppositions that did not exist before this recall started. As far as service and QC issues, all companies have those. Some get noticed, some don't. One person's idea of "satisfaction" is very different from anothers and sometimes no matter what you do, some people will never be satisfied.

Really, call me paranoid if you like. I KNOW that their food is not affected by the recall, and even if it were, it STILL wouldn't affect my dog because she doesn't get wheat due to an allergy to it.
I'm paranoid and you're willing to go to insulting measures to stick up for a company that won't reveal its manufacturer. Information that customers should have a RIGHT to know.

So, yeah, while I've trusted their products, and so far so good as their products deliver fabulous results for my dog, I have a decision to make. I don't care about their legal responsibilities. Making decisions to withold information like that from their customers, regardless of legalities, is wrong. That decision should NOT have been made. It's hard to trust a company with the health of MY pet, that will so willingly seek or agree to a legal binding such as that.

My statement of parnoia was not a personal implication and I apoligize if you took it as such.  It's just observation after reading different threads here and elsewhere.  There's a lot of missinformation and people with agendas and this recall is their opportunity to try and expose an industry that has problems no doubt, but is not as bad as they make it out to be.  Now people are questioning their own judgement and the industry as a whole, and that's a disservice to the many quality companies out there.  If the recall has made you change your opinion of TWO, that's your decision, but they are the same company with the same policies using the same manufacturer making the same food as before the recall.

I find it weird that companies refuse to disclose where their food is made or who packages it. Not just TWO, but a number of companies are doing this in response to "recall queries".  What are they trying to hide? I understand that not every company can afford to build their own plants. I want to know where the ingredients come from, what happens to them, and what sort of quality control is going on.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

I find it weird that companies refuse to disclose where their food is made or who packages it. Not just TWO, but a number of companies are doing this in response to "recall queries".  What are they trying to hide? I understand that not every company can afford to build their own plants. I want to know where the ingredients come from, what happens to them, and what sort of quality control is going on.

I agree too.  What makes it more unsettling to me is that you say it's not that YOU are hiding information from us, you just SIGNED something from the company saying you wouldn't....that is more alarming than the latter.  Why such secrecy? Why can't the company disclose information if other high-end companies will be happy to do so?  That makes the public speculate....usually not for good things.  Most of the time you see the big and bad corporations doing stuff like this; which is not something the people who would purchase TWO are too happy about.  (at least that's JMO)

I also agree with Glenda on the "testing" issue.  It is very alarming for a consumer to open a bag of food and see that it is different.  Just like if you bought one brand of vitamins for years and one day opened it up and saw they were different colors and sizes....would you not question that something may be wrong?  There are better ways to go about this...(feeding trials like Glenda suggested). 

I too do not "bash" TWO as a company...I had personal issues when I was feeding Wild and Natural.  The first bag was normal, and the second bag I bought smelled like rotten cow manure (and I do know what that smells like, lol).  In addition to that (and him not wanting to eat the second foul-smelling bag that was well within expiration), he pooped 5-6 times a day and they were rather loose.  Aside from that, he seemed to be uncomfortable when doing so and instead of running around and playing outside like he normally does, would be constantly just looking for a place to poo.

Ther are only a handful of companies that make dog food.  Some of those are plants owned by a specific brand like Natura.  I had speculated before that if a food company with its own plant decides that it's profitable to manufacture for other smaller operations that there might be legal and marketing reasons to keep that information private.  If the choice came down to a public manufacturer with suspect reputation, or a private one with a high reputation, I think I would go with the private one.  Another possibilty is if there is something special about the process at this plant, they may insist that the remain private.  Again just speculation.

I do not blame any person working for any company for following company rules and regs.  They have to.  If the company says keep your lips zipped, you must do so.  BUT you have to wonder in a case like this, why is it such a big secret where the food is made?  I can understand KFC wanting to keep their special spices a secret.  But i don't think any of these dog food companies that are refusing info use special spices and base their reputation on how good the food is because of the spices. 
 
I have become a skeptic in my old age.  Stuff like this tends to make wonder if the food is being made in some rat hole where it can be done cheap?  Is it being made by a company with a very bad rep for quality control?  Is it being made by  :lesser" food company and they don't want people to know and connect it with that particular brand? I truly doubt if any private company is going to invest in machery to make one brand of dog food that requires special machinery because of a secret way to make it....especially if it isn't an extremely wide selling brand, common brand that everyone knows about.
 
I totally understand why Chris can't disclose the location of the plant making TW, but I do not understand why the company itself (and others) want to keep it a secret.

you just SIGNED something from the company saying you wouldn't....that is more alarming than the latter.

 
Umm... I work for a company where I signed a non-disclosure agreement.  I couldn't even tell you where we buy our printer paper from.  My company has been a member of Fortune 100 Best Companies to Work For Hall of Fame for several years.  Does this mean my company or I should be distrusted because we mutually agree not to disclose information?  Regardless of the information in question, it's not my right to disclose any of it.

I have fed TWO, along with Canidae and Evanger's (canned) for quite some time.  Once, I had a little glitch with a TWO order but a phone call to customer service quickly resolved it.
 
Most, if not all, industries have secrets.  In my business, if you were to call TBC to see who makes their Matrix line, they wouldn't tell you.  They would not tell you the chemical composition of the rubber they use.  They would not tell you their ratio of carbon black to natural rubber.  They WOULD tell you if the tire has been recalled.  That, and standing behind their product, in their mind, would be the extent of their obligation to you.  They have their reasons for not disclosing this information.
 
I don't know why people seem to think companies should share what they consider to be trade secrets or proprietary information, but I wish them luck finding a company who will.  As for me, I will continue to feed TWO and have all the confidence in the world that they are not part of the recall.  It works and that is all that matters to me.