Amaranth

    • Gold Top Dog
    If i remember correctly,it was John from Eaglepack who was vehemently defending amaranth in their formula's!
    • Gold Top Dog
    It's in all of the Timberwolf formulas except Wild & Natural, but the Ocean Blue is the only one that doesn't have another carb source, either oats or millet, listed first.
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog




    Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 10:09 am:   
    [linkostid=502533&;page=46/166734]>http://forum.dog.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.pl?action=editpost&;postid=502533&;page=46/166734][/link] [linkostid=502533&;page=46/166734]>http://forum.dog.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.pl?action=delpost&;postid=502533&;page=46/166734][/link]


    John C.The Eagle Pack ingredient difference is NOT due to where it is sold. We were in the middle of a bag/label change. The ingredients showing Amaranth is not what we are shipping anywhere. Amaranth does not have FDA GRAS status (not allowed in dog food). I had gotten Ouinoa approved and thought I could get Amaranth approved and jumped the gun on putting it on the label. I have been pretty honest and upfront with you guys...maybe ask me first? Well, I went searching in the old forum and came up with this post from John at Eagle,,so must have been someone else you were thinking of Christine.     So thats good, I guess I'm not worrying about it being in Eagle Pack kibble.
    • Silver
    John is the one that told us it wasn't OK for amaranth to be in dog food and Eagle wasn't using it because FDA didn't give it the GRAS rating.
     
    No, I did not email Eagle because it was my understanding they weren't using it at all. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    SHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • Gold Top Dog
    I find it completely ironic that you're all concerned about the FDA and AAFCO not approving amaranth as an ingredient in pet food , yet they APPROVE ethoxyquin, BHA/BHT, 4 D meats, steroids, antibiotics. tallow,  crap grain fillers, artifical colors, flavors and other additives that are proven to cause liver and kidney disease, cancer and a host of other maladies. I wouldn't trust a thing they say.

    Here is an excellent article on the nutritional value and benefits of amaranth.  Read the last 5-6 paragraphs that come before the recipes. This stupid posting system doesn't let you cut and paste :( 
    [linkhttp://chetday.com/amaranth.html]http://chetday.com/amaranth.html[/link]

    • Gold Top Dog
    Personally I don't care what they allow or not allow,,,and there is not a lot about the FDA that I really really trust after reading and researching their  drug policies, BUT if there is something that they haven't approved, I don't want it in my dog food. PERIOD! That doesn't mean that I want everything that they do approve either, that only means if there is question,,,don't put it in!!!   
    • Gold Top Dog
    .Ok.... answer me this then.  If  amaranth is NOT an approved pet food ingredient. How do you explain that ALL of the pet foods which include it are AAFCO  approved ??? Do you think they didn't look at the ingredient list ??
    • Silver
    Myorganic, I'm not quite sure what relevance your comments have to a topic about amaranth - aside from the article posted.  It's not a only a matter of FDA approval, it's a matter of safety of a particular ingredient that some dog food companies are using in large quantities without approval.  It is also a continuation of a previous conversation regarding the safety and allowance of amaranth in pet food.  Maybe you missed that thread in the old Idog format? 

    Many of us here on Idog are aware of many chemical additives that are carcinogenic and capable of creating numerous long term medical ;problems in our pets.  That's not in question in this thread.  What was in question is the safety of amaranth and why some companies are using it even though it hasn't been approved for use in pet food because of safety factors.
     
     
    ETA:  My personal contact with FDA did specifically refer to grain amaranth, not a food dye.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: lovenewfies

    You inquired about the safety of amaranth grain in animal feed.  Several anti-nutritive factors have been identified in grain amaranth that have resulted in reductions in animal performance.  Trypsin inhibitor activity, tannin, phytate, and saponins have been identified in amaranth.  The triterpene saponin concentration of amaranth seeds is 0.09-0.1% of dry matter and can rise to 0.18% during germination.  A toxicity study was conducted in hamsters and the lethal dose of saponins was calculated as 1100 mg/kg BW         
    [Oleszek, W., M. Junkuszew, and A. Stochmal (1999).  "Determination and toxicity of
    saponins from Amaranthus cruentus seeds."  J Agric Food Chem 47:3685-3687].  CVM does not have safety information on the use of amaranth grain in pet food and has found evidence to support that at high levels of inclusion, amaranth grain has negative effects on animal performance. 


    Because safety concerns associated with feeding amaranth grain have been identified, CVM considers amaranth grain to be an unapproved food additive when used in an animal feed.  At this time, amaranth grain should not be included in any animal feed marketed in the United States.  If you wish to pursue the use of amaranth grain in animal feed, you will need to provide evidence that amaranth grain provides a nutritional benefit and that the intended use is safe for both the target species and for humans who may consume the edible animal products (meat, milk, and eggs) if used in livestock diets.  



    ORIGINAL: myorganicpets
     
    It is clearly obvious that in the letters to/from the FDA they are assuming the sender is talking about FD&C No 2... NOT   amaranth the  seed/grain.


    Actually it is clearly obvious that they are talking about amaranth grain, since it is referred to several times.
    • Gold Top Dog
    For sure reading some of this information is "Greek to me," but I found many websites that contain information that makes me know that it just not be what I want added into my food.  And you may be right in thinking that there is a lot of other ingredients that are questionable, but why add another one??
    From all that I can really gather is that it needs to be studied more. Some links:
     

    It is our opinion that more research needs to be done before we can recommend amaranth grain as a major ingredient in animal feed. To our knowledge it has not been shown whether these factors decrease the value of amaranth in human nutrition. It is quite possible that some varieties may lack these anti-nutritional factors. Until more work is done, however, the feeding trial results must moderate our otherwise enthusiastic promotion of amaranth grain. But remember, the Aztecs did quite well on at least selected varieties!  Found on [linkhttp://www.echotech.org/technical/az/aztext/azch11an.htm#Pers]http://www.echotech.org/technical/az/aztext/azch11an.htm#Pers[/link] And one that states that it can have high nitrate levels such as: 
    [linkhttp://crop.scijournals.org/cgi/content/full/41/2/466#BIB25]Pond and Lehmann (1989)[/link] cited Amaranthus cruentus L. (Zimbabwe cultivar PI 482049) as a potential feed resource for ruminants based on its high protein content, low cellulose, and the absence of toxic substances in the vegetative fractions of the plant. However, some amaranth can have toxic levels of nitrates and oxalates ([linkhttp://crop.scijournals.org/cgi/content/full/41/2/466#BIB9]Cheeke and Bronson, 1979[/link]). Toxicity can result from nitrates in forages. Poisoning may result from accumulation of nitrates and/or oxalates in plants growing under stress, especially if drought conditions occur during a period of heavy nitrate uptake by the plant. Dietary nitrate is converted to nitrite, then ammonia by rumen bacteria. Toxicity occurs when the rate of conversion of nitrate to nitrite is higher than the conversion of nitrite to ammonia. Once absorbed into the blood, nitrite will bind to hemoglobin, forming methemoglobin. Since methemoglobin is less efficient in oxygen transport, animals will literally suffocate ([linkhttp://crop.scijournals.org/cgi/content/full/41/2/466#BIB40]Vough et al., 1991[/link]).  Link [link>http://crop.scijournals.org/cgi/content/full/41/2/466]http://crop.scijournals.org/cgi/content/full/41/2/466[/link][/size]
     
    I'm sure it does have good qualities, but they just might not be worth it. And the question is, why are certain companies putting it in their food without it being approved?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Just a note about comparing the safety of ingredients as fed to ruminants to our own single-stomached pets. 

    Bloat:  this is indeed a vastly different condition from what a dog could possibly experience.  Bloat occurs in the rumen in ruminants - dogs don't have rumens.  The mechanics of bloat in ruminants is quite well understood, being an overproduction or buildup of methane gases in this chamber which digests cellulose using specialized symbiotic bacteria. Death occurs very quickly from suffocation if it is not treated by relieving the pressure (stimulating belching, letting out gas through an esophageal tube, treating with a defoaming agent, or surgically opening the rumen through the peritoneal wall and flank) and addressing the underlying causes of the gas buildup.

    Bloat in dogs occurs in the intestines, I believe - if we don't know what causes it exactly it is certain that it is a completely different process from the condition which can strike a ruminant.

    This statement again is specific to ruminants - note the link to the conversion of cellulose to glucose, which our carnivores cannot accomplish.

    Poisoning may result from accumulation of nitrates and/or oxalates in plants growing under stress, especially if drought conditions occur during a period of heavy nitrate uptake by the plant. Dietary nitrate is converted to nitrite, then ammonia by rumen bacteria. Toxicity occurs when the rate of conversion of nitrate to nitrite is higher than the conversion of nitrite to ammonia. Once absorbed into the blood, nitrite will bind to hemoglobin, forming methemoglobin. Since methemoglobin is less efficient in oxygen transport, animals will literally suffocate

    • Bronze
    Amaranth...what I said before in the posts you have shown still stands, Amaranth is NOT approved by FDA. I was the one who encouraged you guys to write FDA. I was personally involved, first hand. It does not matter what web sites say, what groups have an ax to grind or the smoke a company blows at you. It is NOT approved and those using it are doing so in violation of FDA and AAFCO. You have to decide if you want to do business with companies that knowingly break the law.
    • Gold Top Dog
    crrrrap.

    Chelsea,
    Even if there isn't any amaranth in the Ocean Blue and your bag is just labeled wrong, wow. I've been thinking about this before this thread was bumped but now that I know that is not AAFCO approved, that's a bit more than shady.
    Bad T.O.
    Bad.
    • Gold Top Dog
    crrrrap.

    Chelsea,
    Even if there isn't any amaranth in the Ocean Blue and your bag is just labeled wrong, wow. I've been thinking about this before this thread was bumped but now that I know that is not AAFCO approved, that's a bit more than shady.
    Bad T.O.
    Bad.

     
    I know. [:o] What the heck...