Another Timberwolf/Diamond Thread

    • Gold Top Dog
    with all the issues that have been brought up such as bags with no expiration date, bags containing more than one type of kibble, a bag that had staples in the food, generic bags with labels stuck on them, bags labeled cat food which had dog food in them,


    From what I was told , with the exception of staples in the bag, none of that food was available for RESALE at retail.  It was  listed on the site as being mislabled or missing dates, codes,etc and that's why it was reduced down to practically nothing. Much the same as if you were shopping at a factory store where they were getting rid of 2nds and irregulars that couldn't be put out for regular retail sale or exported. That's exactly what they were doing here.  There was no secret about it. It was right there on the website right on the order page.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Nutro says on their site that Ultra dog is preserved without chemical preservatives like ethoxyquin;
    http://www.ultraholistic.com/ingredients.shtml

    However, they import the salmon meal they use from Chile and it is preserved with ethoxyquin. As I said before, unless TO has the permits I mentioned the salmon meal they use has to be preserved with ethoxyquin:

     
    I must be missing something. I looked at the website and the page you linked and couldn't find any mention of using fish imported from Chile. Just wondered, academically, as I don't use Ultra.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
      Athefurflies,  My Organic Pets(Sharon), is a distributor of TO and she received several  generic bags with labels stuck on them. She contacted TO and was told that they were unaware that generic bags being used for their products. She was unable to resell the food (about 2000 pounds worth). Kelly, who is Sooner on this board, ordered several 3 pound bags of Wild and Natural. The food arrived in plain white plastic bags with no "use by" or expiration dates on them, and she had paid retail price for the order.
       Ron, I called Nutro and asked them where they got the salmon meal that they used. When they said it was imported from Chile, I brought up the Coast Guard regulations about fish meal not destined for human consumption and ethoxyquin, and they said that yes, there was ethoxyquin in the salmon meal. I posted the link because it is an example of how a company can legally say they don't use an additive as long as they don't put it in theirself. Ethoxyquin is an issue to me because it is not allowed in human food except for trace amounts in chile powder and a few other spices, so I don't want my dog to have it.
    • Gold Top Dog
    SOOOO, legal loopholes  means a company can add to their label   (or leave out) infomation like this, which  basically means they can lie about it and most would never know they had been lied to.I do not like legal loopholes.  I wonder just how many loopholes there are involving OUR food as well as meds, etc. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    There are so many legal "loop-holes" in every aspect of law right now, it's causing me to doubt our entire judicial system.  Aside from the dog food, it seems like right now they are  having trials on who's lawyer can manipulate the law the most rather than who's guilty or innocent....what is this world coming to!! [&:]

    lol
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Asthefurflies

    with all the issues that have been brought up such as bags with no expiration date, bags containing more than one type of kibble, a bag that had staples in the food, generic bags with labels stuck on them, bags labeled cat food which had dog food in them,


    From what I was told , with the exception of staples in the bag, none of that food was available for RESALE at retail. It was listed on the site as being mislabled or missing dates, codes,etc and that's why it was reduced down to practically nothing. Much the same as if you were shopping at a factory store where they were getting rid of 2nds and irregulars that couldn't be put out for regular retail sale or exported. That's exactly what they were doing here. There was no secret about it. It was right there on the website right on the order page.



    The staples thing was actually Merrick food. Lori (willowsmom) I think found them. I haven't heard of that with TO.

    As I remember, on the site it said that the cat food was in dog food bags, and as far as I know no one received those. racuda received a shipment of cat food bags that listed bison as the first ingredient. myorganicpets, who was/is a distributor, received generic silver bags with ingredient stickers stuck on. Obviously those weren't re-saleable, which isn't good for a distributor. She posted some time ago that TO said they would refund her money since "the packing plant did this without their knowledge" if she provided a receipt from donating the food to the Humane Society. I'm curious to know if TO followed through on that offer since the last time the topic came up she still had the food and mentioned giving it to the HS and maybe seeing if they would give her a little money for it. Previous posts lead me to believe she's gone from this board though, which is kind of disappointing since having the distributor's perspective on TO was kind of nice.

    As for my situation, I ordered the 12-3.3 lb bags of Wilderness Elk, which were listed as not for resale/no UPC code. I thought/think that the UPC code is the barcode printed on a package meant for resale. The bags that I received had a barcode, but they did not have a production code or expiration date, and they were not the foil barrier bags. They were white plastic bags with grey print. They were not suitable for long term storage, and I was uncomfortable with not knowing the dates of the product.

    TO never mentioned or their site having mixed kibble type in bags. To me that is a machine, packing, and quality control problem.

    cc431 you make interesting points, but I'm not sure I exactly agree. TO is still shipping bags that list amaranth as an ingredient, but a retailer told me that they removed amaranth from their formulas nine months ago. That would have been before the Diamond mess, so if they had new bags printed, why weren't they correct?

    Also, if your theory is correct, would that not mean that TO is manufactured at the Diamond plant that had a problem? Why would they trash their product if it was in an unaffected plant?

    Personally I am still comfortable using Solid Gold and Natural Balance because they answered the inquiry in an informative, straightforward manner and they were quick to reassure which plant they use and they they do their own testing.

    And there's still the APHIS question.

    Basically it all boils down to the fact that this industry, particularly the relatively small holistic companies, needs to be regulated tighter, and truth in labeling laws need to be enforced.


    • Gold Top Dog
    Does anyone know if BLUE buffalo (the one at petsmart) is made by diamond? I would like to know before i consider giving it a try in the future.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I know that Blue Buffulo is on the Great Dane Ladys suggested food list.
    • Gold Top Dog
      Kelly, Thanks for setting the record straight about the staples being found in a bag of Merrick food. I am sorry I misstated that and blamed it on TO. Bison meat is the first ingredient in the canid formula Dakota Bison, and is not in the Serengeti Felid diet; do you know what was actually in the bag that Randall got? I went back to the old forum but couldn't find the thread. 
    Everyone on this board that has said they feed TO to their dogs have been very pleased with it and say their dogs are doing great so the chances are that in spite of all the issues raised they are producing a good product. For me , however, there are too many doubts about their quality control practices to use their food.

       " Basically it all boils down to the fact that this industry, particularly the relatively small holistic companies, needs to be regulated tighter, and truth in labeling laws need to be enforced."

       I was thinking that if a plant manufacturing human food had committed the violations that Diamond had, wouldn't they have been shut down or at least been made to pay a heavy fine?  I have been googling and cannot find any thing that says the FDA made Diamond pay a fine for the violations.

    • Gold Top Dog
    Randall's bags were regular Serengeti Felid bags, but they did list bison as the first ingredient, which Sharon said was a misprint. At the time TO's site did not list bison as an ingredient, so I'm sure that it was a misprint, but what was actually in the bag is a mystery, as is so much of Timberwolf. That's what got the ball rolling in my case with my suspicions. How can you ever know for sure what ingredients you're getting?

    I think that they probably do make a decent product, but there is no one standing behind it.

    Also, I will say that my dogs, all three of them, lost muscle tone on TO. I hadn't realized how bad until I've seen them recently bulking up from being back on Canidae.
    • Bronze
    The only thing my three have  lost on TO is the fat, particularly the beagle.  I previously fed Natura products - Ca Natural and Healthwise. They kept them all overweight and the beagle fat and lazy. I've tried Eagle Pack Holistic formulas. Two of mine itched constantly on them.  I've been feeding TO products for over a year.  I've never had a problem with the food or with receiving my shipments.
    • Gold Top Dog
    If anything my puppy has gained muscle tone on TO "Wild and Natural."  Not to mention he hasn't become bored of the taste yet (which is rare).  Luckily I don't have to deal with the shipping since I have a local store that sells it ( [linkhttp://phydeauxpets.com/]http://phydeauxpets.com[/link] ).
    • Gold Top Dog
    Jenna,
    Are you referring to the Phydueax's in Chapel Hill/Carboro? I have been in there a few times, but didn't see any TO.
    • Gold Top Dog
    kennel_keeper, you must live in my sister's neck of the woods.  She and her husband both retired from the University of NC there in Chapel Hill.  She was secretary to dean of dental school and he was in the printing department.  They live in the Eli Whitney community, their mailing address is Graham (Rt. number) and their phone exchange is Saxpahaw.   Any of this sound familar to you?
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: kennel_keeper

    Jenna,
    Are you referring to the Phydueax's in Chapel Hill/Carboro? I have been in there a few times, but didn't see any TO.


    Yes, they now carry TO (recent addition).  I absolutely LOVE that store!