Corn Gluten Meal? Menadione?

It is probably worth a try, I personally like to try foods that have passed AAFCO feeding trials, not sure if that food has or not, and I don't believe that you can look at an ingredients list on paper and somehow devine how your dog is going to do on that food, I think the only way to find out, is to feed it for a while and observe what results you get.

I'm probably not going to try it immediately. I'm weighing my options at this point. I'm going to see if they're willing to do the frequent buyer's thing with my current food first. If they won't/can't, then I may consider it. I have to see exactly how much it would save me. It might actually be a neglible amount. I haven't compared the prices that closely yet.

I just noticed that I would actually feed 21.6% less with this food versus my current food. Hmmm... I might have to consider this even more.

The fish meal is probably preserved with ethoxyquin, if that concerns you.

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

It is probably worth a try, I personally like to try foods that have passed AAFCO feeding trials, not sure if that food has or not, and I don't believe that you can look at an ingredients list on paper and somehow devine how your dog is going to do on that food, I think the only way to find out, is to feed it for a while and observe what results you get.

Why give your pet an inferior grade of food just to save a few cents?  My dog's health is worth alot more to me than that...

[linkhttp://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#commercial]http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#commercial[/link]

[linkhttp://www.api4animals.org/facts.php?p=359&more=1]http://www.api4animals.org/facts.php?p=359&more=1[/link]


[linkhttp://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/petfood1.html]http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/petfood1.html[/link]

Why give your pet an inferior grade of food just to save a few cents? My dog's health is worth alot more to me than that...

Inferior is a subjective matter of opinion, there is good reason to use corn gluten, it lowers, the ash content of the foods, it is highly digestible and has a good amino acid profile, I would not use a food that uses corn gluten as it's main source of protien, but it compliments, chicken very well.  The food you feed is very high in NFE or carbs for lack of a better word, but you continue to feed it and tout it as a wonderful food, why?   I am guessing it is because of the results you get, which once again means you cannot tell what results you will get from a food just by reading the label, you actually have to try it, you are a perfect example of that.

the corn gluten in that food is far enough down in the list of ingredients that it's not of concern unless your dog is allergic to corn. It's foods like some of Royal Canin's line, that have corn gluten listed as the third ingredient, that you need to watch out for. Artificially pumping up the protein % on the bag. A big lie.

I don't want this to change into some huge argument over what's good food an what's bad food, yadda yadda,etc etc. I just wanted to know what was the reasons that you would or wouldn't feed these two ingredients. And then I asked what you thought about the ingredients in that food. I just wanted to make sure I didn't skip over an ingredient or something, such as:

ORIGINAL: jennie_c_d

The fish meal is probably preserved with ethoxyquin, if that concerns you.

Thanks. That was exactly what I was looking for. Anything else?

I have had wonderful results with the Royal Canin products, but I found something a little interesting, in not a good way. I have been considering buying their Pro bags, 40 pd bags for half cost. I guess they sell them to you for a price because the ingredients are not the same at all!
 
Here are the first ingredients for the Mini Special I buy at the store:
Chicken meal, chicken, brewers rice, brown rice, chicken fat, corn gluten meal
 
Ingredients for the same food in Pro size bags:
Chicken by product meal, ground corn, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, brewers rice
 
Wow, they really change things to make you think you are saving money on the same product, when actually it looks like they add more corn a fillers so they safe on cost!

I'll be happy to spend a little more on Timberwolf, and other high end foods, than saving money on the Pro bags form RC. 

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

Why give your pet an inferior grade of food just to save a few cents? My dog's health is worth alot more to me than that...

Inferior is a subjective matter of opinion, there is good reason to use corn gluten, it lowers, the ash content of the foods, it is highly digestible and has a good amino acid profile, I would not use a food that uses corn gluten as it's main source of protien, but it compliments, chicken very well.  The food you feed is very high in NFE or carbs for lack of a better word, but you continue to feed it and tout it as a wonderful food, why?   I am guessing it is because of the results you get, which once again means you cannot tell what results you will get from a food just by reading the label, you actually have to try it, you are a perfect example of that.

If you read the links that I posted plus some others on this forum you will see that it is pretty common for people that have done extensive  research on  dog food ingredients vs dog health, to state that  corn gluetin is an ingredient to avoid. By the way, corn gluetin meal is often used as a organic weed killer.....  Not going to feed my dog that junk!!

Salt and vinegar are also used as weed killer, yet they don't harm people or dogs when used in moderation. 

ORIGINAL: beth82

Salt and vinegar are also used as weed killer, yet they don't harm people or dogs when used in moderation. 

If the percentage of salt and vinegar was as high on the ingredients list as corn gluten is in  the dog junkfoods, that would be pretty unhealthy for your dog. 

If the percentage of salt and vinegar was as high on the ingredients list as corn gluten is in the dog junkfoods, that would be pretty unhealthy for your dog.

Your food has potatoes as it's main ingredient which has Caffeic acid which is a rodent carcinogen, why the double standard?? Oh and don't even get me started on the canola oil.

"Canola oil comes from the rape seed, which is part of the mustard family of plants. Rape is the most toxic of all food-oil plants. Like soy, rape is a weed. Insects will not eat it; it is deadly poisonous!

 
[linkhttp://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/canola.htm]http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/canola.htm[/link]
 
You can pretty much find something villyfying any ingredient.

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

Inferior is a subjective matter of opinion, there is good reason to use corn gluten, it lowers, the ash content of the foods, it is highly digestible and has a good amino acid profile, I would not use a food that uses corn gluten as it's main source of protien, but it compliments, chicken very well. 

 
Sounds like you got this wording straight off the Royal Canin website.  Good amino acid profile compared to what?  The amino acids that they claim it is a good source of are also found in sufficient amounts in meat. It has been cited in numerous papers (one of which I posted in another thread) that the amino acid profile of corn gluten is inferior to the profile of meat for dogs, so I wouldn't necessarily say that it's a matter of opinion.

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

If the percentage of salt and vinegar was as high on the ingredients list as corn gluten is in the dog junkfoods, that would be pretty unhealthy for your dog.

Your food has potatoes as it's main ingredient which has Caffeic acid which is a rodent carcinogen, why the double standard?? Oh and don't even get me started on the canola oil.

"Canola oil comes from the rape seed, which is part of the mustard family of plants. Rape is the most toxic of all food-oil plants. Like soy, rape is a weed. Insects will not eat it; it is deadly poisonous!


[linkhttp://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/canola.htm]http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/canola.htm[/link]

You can pretty much find something villyfying any ingredient.

That's strange, I thought that Caffeic acid is a carcinogen inhibitor.....
[linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeic_acid]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeic_acid[/link]

That's strange, I thought that Caffeic acid is a carcinogen inhibitor...

Just depends what studies you believe, just like with any ingredient. The same can also be said about BHT and BHA, again you can dig up dirt about any ingredient, that is my point.

[linkhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2112522&dopt=Abstract]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2112522&dopt=Abstract[/link]

The carcinogenic potential of caffeic acid, sesamol and catechol was examined in male and female F344 rats and B6C3F1 mice, groups of 30 animals being treated with diets containing 2% caffeic acid, 2% sesamol or 0.8% catechol for 104 weeks (rats) or 96 weeks (mice). Histological examination revealed that caffeic acid induced forestomach squamous cell carcinoma in 57% (P less than 0.001 vs. controls) and 50% (P less than 0.001) of male and female rats, respectively, whereas sesamol was associated with squamous cell carcinoma at incidences of 31% (P less than 0.001) in male rats, and 38% (P less than 0.001) and 17% (P less than 0.05) in male and female mice, respectively. Catechol induced glandular stomach adenocarcinomas in 54% (P less than 0.001) and 43% (P less than 0.001) of male and female rats, respectively. The results thus clearly demonstrated that all three antioxidants are carcinogenic in rodent stomach epithelia.
PMID: 2112522 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]