Corn Gluten Meal? Menadione?

My answer isn't going to be that helpful I'm sure..but I'll give you my opinion anyway.
I used to be total anti-corn. I still try to avoid it just because I'm not totally comfortable with it being in the food. I think corn is an okay ingredient but the problem is most of the companies that do use corn use it as their protein source and I think that's wrong. I want meat to be my protein source, not corn.

As far as menadione...I haven't researched it much so I don't know that much about it. I avoid it just based on what I've heard. I figure better safe than sorry.

I have no problem with either.  My dogs do just great on their kibble that contains corn gluten--and have for over 50 years.  However I know many dogs do not.  As to the other, i think there is about a 50-50 split on it.  I am more worried about what is put in the air my dogs breath--5 miles down the road there is a OxyChem, duPont and Reymnolds.  About 5 years ago we were all told to stay in the house, shut windows and doors and do not run the AC--something had gotten in the air from one of the plants and it was causing skin to burn, eyes to water.  People in Port Aransas were told to leave the island as it was drifting there way--and it is about 8 miles as the crow flies. So, thinkg like that worry me more than a little minute amount of perservative in their food.

"Ground yellow corn is not a bad ingredient if your pet is not allergic to it, but it is widely understood that a protein (animal) should be the first ingredient in most formulas (senior/reduced calorie excluded). "

"Corn gluten meal is used by most manufacturers to artificially inflate protein percentages in food; It has been proven an inadequate source of protein for dogs. "

That's what I wrote about a year ago now. Corn gluten meal is used almost exclusively to up the protein percentage in low quality food and bind the kibble, and isn't really that digestible. Once you get to some of the midgrade foods, it disappears from ingredients lists as more meat is added to the formulas.

Menadione I never really was convinced of any bad side effects. Fromm Four-Star was the only brand we had that included it in their formulas, but they've since removed it.

[linkhttp://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione]http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione[/link]

That said, I fed a food with menadione for a while, because it was the only thing I could find that my dog would tolerate.

I would never feed corn gluten meal, because I feel like glutens are bad for everyone, and worse for dogs than for people (with us being far closer to the herbivorous end of the scale, and dogs on the carnivorous end). Protein should come from meat and veggies, not altered grain.

I avoid any food with corn gluten in it. It's a gimmick used by the dog food company to make the food look like it has adequate protein in it. The amino acids in corn gluten are NOT balanced. Any dog food company that uses corn gluten is lying to the consumer, and if any of their products contain it, you should probabaly avoid ALL of their products-- who knows what other tricks they are up too. Not a trustworthy company.
I don't know what to think about menadione.

While I do not have a problem with corn in a food in small quantities, I do not like to see corn gluten.  As others have said, corn gluten is used to up the protein percentage, and I feel that protein from meats has an amino acid profile more suited to canines than from any grain, therefore protein should come from meat.
 
As far as menadione is concerned, I personally avoid it.  There are too many options available without it.

I have no problem with either, unless the corn gluten meal is one of the main ingredients.  It should not be the main source of protein, but I see no problem with using it as a supplement in addition to meat.  It isn't a true gluten like the stuff in wheat and barley.  Corn is a "gluten-free grain", like rice.

I haven't seen any evidence that menadione is actually dangerous, and it's used in such small amounts, I don't worry about it. 

Corn gluten meal doesn't bother me as long as it isn't used as the main protein source in the food. It does have some benefits. I don't seek it out in a food, but I won't turn down a food on that basis, unless it is a major ingredient.

I do strictly avoid menadione. There are too many options without it and more are removing it all the time. Even though it hasn't been studied here it is banned in many European countries and that's good enough reason for me.

I avoid the use of both.
 
Kim

Why do you feel that way?

 
Sorry, I didn't answer this part. For corn gluten, a combination of the fact that it's simply un-needed, is super-high on the list for allergens in dogs, as well as the overwhelming evidence for corn and corn-based products playing a role in many, many different kinds of behavioural problems in dogs, from compulsive stereotypies to anxieties to certain types of aggression, since it interferes with the brain's serotonin.
 
Menadione - simply playing the "better safe than sorry" role. It's been shown to have caused problems in humans and animals alike, and I don't wish to play Russian Roulette with "how much might be safe for 'my' dog". Since it's easily avoidable, I just avoid it.
 
Kim

Corn gluetin meal is a cheap component to put in dog food and is more suited to cowfeed. It is a contributor to diseases like canine diabetes. Menadione has been dropped by most premium dog food companies as an unhealty ingredient.  


[linkhttp://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#commercial]http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#commercial[/link]

I have no problem with either, as long as the corn gluten is used in combination with an animal protein as it is in most cases, there is good reason to use it,  and menadione in my opinion is much to do about nothing, it has been used in all kinds of animal feed for over 50 years, without any reported cases of toxicity.

     Menadione is an artificial vitamin, but the entire vitamin premix in any given dog food is synthetically produced - and they ALL have side effects if taken in high doses. Menadione is simply Vitamin K, and since its usually last on the list, the the amounts in a food are nothing near the point it needs to be to cause a problem. Dogs can have reactions to any number of vitamins in a food if not properly balanced.
     As for corn gluten meal, I'm "iffy" on that ingredient. I've fed foods that used it with no problems at all - in fact one of them was probably on my list of top foods I've ever tried! Do I think its a good ingredient? Not really. Would I avoid a food just because it contained corn gluten meal? Only if it was listed as the first ingredient, because then I'd know the main source of protein in the diet wasn't highly bioavailable. Corn gluten meal is basically what is left over after all the parts containing the nutritional value are removed. The AAFCO definiteion of corn gluten meal is:

Corn Gluten Meal - the dried residue from corn after the removal of the larger part of the starch and germ, and the separation of the bran by the process employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup, or by enzymatic treatment of the endosperm.
     So, if I was looking through foods and came across one that had meat proteins listed as the main ingredients, but happened to have corn gluten meal, I'd have no problem using it. But no, as a main ingredient it doesn;t cut it - but for that matter - no grain cuts it as the first ingredient, IMHO.

Well the reason I was asking about this is that they sell a food at my local feed store that I was checking out. They have a frequent buyers program for it and it might help me save some money. Here's the ingredients list:
Chicken, chicken meal, rice flour, oatmeal, whole grain brown rice, chicken fat
(preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E), corn gluten meal, dried beet pulp,
flaxseed, dried egg product, natural chicken flavor, fish meal, brewers dried yeast, potassium 
chloride, salt, choline chloride, glucosamine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, 
zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese 
proteinate, chondroitin sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium 
pantothenate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6),vitamin B12 
supplement, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (source of vitamin K activity), 
riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid

[size="3"]The only things that I didn't really like about it was the corn gluten meal and the menadione. [/size][size="3"]They also make a line that doesn't have the menadione, but I don't think my feed store carries it.[/size][size="3"]What do you guys think about it?
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