I bought--EEK--Iams

ORIGINAL: sandra_slayton
Unless a dog is allergic to say beef or pork, I don't see what difference it m akes what kind of "meat broth" it is.  Heck that j ust means it is the water from boiled meat.  What difference would it make if it was chicken heads and feet  or beef noses and ears etc, that were boiled.  I am quite sure the  nutirtion part of the "meats" will be in the broth. It isn't like the "mystery meat" is the slimey creature from the black lagoon or one of those martians in War Of The Worlds.  It is part of a cow, a hog, a chicken a lamb, something.  And even if it were gopher or possem broth, that would not bother me at all--dogs eat such things in the wild. 

I may be wrong but i suspect that sometimes stuff as listed as by-product because customers would gag at "chicken guts" . or "Cow udders" or " Pig Colons.  And as far as i am concerned, every one this is fine fro my dogs.

 
The reason it matters is because according to AAFCO standards, if the specific type of meat is not named, the content is not regulated. See "meat meal" below:
 
AAFCO: The rendered product from mammal tissues, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.
The animal parts used can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Any kind of animal can be included: "4-D animals" (dead, diseased, disabled, or dying prior to slaughter), goats, pigs, horses, rats, misc. roadkill, animals euthanized at shelters and so on. It can also include pus, cancerous tissue, and decomposed (spoiled) tissue.
 
[linkhttp://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients]http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients[/link]

ORIGINAL: ottoluv

I also won't feed a food with barley because it's a common allergen and similar to wheat.

I keep seeing this posted, beef/dairy/chicken are the most common food allergens in dogs (much more common then soy/wheat/corn).  You tend to see more allergies to things that are more often found in food, it's not because they are more allergy provoking, but because there is more exposure.  I don't really understand the reasoning behind avoiding an ingredient becuase it sometimes causes allergies.  If that's really the argument, then why not avoid beef/dairy/chicken? Just doesn't seem to jive with the pathophysiology of food allergies.

Actually, I think allergies to wheat are pretty common. Maybe not statistically as high as beef/dairy/chicken, but common nonetheless. And since barley is similar to wheat, which I KNOW my dog is allergic to, I just avoid it. Also because it's a high gluten grain, I don't see how it has any particular redeeming value; there are other grains like brown rice that I believe are healthier and I feed instead.

Actually, I think allergies to wheat are pretty common. Maybe not statistically as high as beef/dairy/chicken, but common nonetheless. And since barley is similar to wheat, which I KNOW my dog is allergic to, I just avoid it. Also because it's a high gluten grain, I don't see how it has any particular redeeming value; there are other grains like brown rice that I believe are healthier and I feed instead.

 
Not to argue with you luvntzus, but they are very rare, there was recently a thread that papillon posted an article discussing that.  In addition, there is no evidence that cross-reactivity of that nature takes place with two grains.  Here is one of the better done studies looking at this.   Since you have such a difficult time it seems finding a food that works for gingerbread, didn't want you to rule things out needlessly
 
[linkhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed[/link]

the only problem i have with it is the "caramel" which i assume is added for coloring.  Thats just a peeve of mine.

I don't understand why this post was started other than to stir up a little controversy.

Were you just trying to start something? There's an internet word for stuff like that...

I would be interested to hear Sandra's reply to these questions.Not enough controversy about what you're feeding your dogs lately,perhaps? And therefore not the usual array of supporters and the make you feel good [sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif] posts,maybe?

ORIGINAL: Edie

I don't understand why this post was started other than to stir up a little controversy.

Were you just trying to start something? There's an internet word for stuff like that...

I would be interested to hear Sandra's reply to these questions.Not enough controversy about what you're feeding your dogs lately,perhaps? And therefore not the usual array of supporters and the make you feel good [sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif] posts,maybe?

ummm, im not sure, but the feeling i got was that she has heard so much negative stuff about it and then she read the label and now shes trying to figure out why so many peopls say its so bad, cause its really not bad as far as she can see.  nothing wrong with that.

ummm, im not sure, but the feeling i got was that she has heard so much negative stuff about it and then she read the label and now shes trying to figure out why so many peopls say its so bad, cause its really not bad as far as she can see. nothing wrong with that

You hit the n ail on the head.  The usual complaint against the :"lesser foods" is "oh, it is grain heavy.  It 's first ingredent is a grain, then a meat and then 3 more grains.  Meat should be at least the first two ingredients"  Well I know meat broth is listed first, but you know what, what do  you get when you are in the hospital after surgery?  Broth.  I use broth for my soups and stews.  I think meat broth would be much better than just palin water.  Then if memory serves me, lamb, fish and lamb by-products was the first solid ingredients.Dried egg product is up there as well and I understand beet pulp is good for the dogs, especailly since sugar has been removed.  Barely  and Brewers rice was on down the line.

Next the dreaded corn gluten in lesser foods. I don't recall seeing any in this product.  I know that one dreaded fish preservative is in here, but i didn't see the others.  I also did not see dyes. 


So you can't say it was no good because meat was after grains, or there was one meat and then 4 grains.  You can't say it is grain heavy because it contains  a multitide of grains, starting at the top.  You can't complain about corn or corn gluten as it doesn't have any, nor dyes or the presevretives except for the one, which has not been proven to be bad.    Those are the things that you list is the problem with the "lesser foods".  And i don't see it here.  So it seems to me the biggest problem is not the food  or the ingredients, but the name., Iams.

I am not switching to iams, i just got this can last night because I was tired and I wanted to get home.  It was just curiosity this morning that made me read the ingredients and wonder what the complaints would be.  I had never fed dry or canned iams before, never even checked it out.  But I have seen over and over here that is so bad, clumped with SD, Pedigree, purina, Euka, and in some cases, even nutro.  And it just didn't look, doesn't look, that bad to me.
 
EDITED   Oh, Edie, in case you are wondering why i didn't get around to answering sooner, I  left the house at 4:45 and didn't get home until after midnight.  I was not ignoring your questions/remarks, snide and rude as they were.  I do expect that from some people.
 
 

I know dogs and humans are different, but when my kids were babies, the doctor had us start them on barley cereal rather than any other because there was less problems with barley, and it was easier to digest.  So I tend to think of barley as a good ingredient. 
Since you brought it up, I went to look at the couple cans of dog food that I have,,,in case I didn't get around to making Bubby her cooked meat with veggies,,,I keep a couple cans here, just to add some more meat. I have two of Eagle, and one of Aldis brand. I remember when I bought it a month or so ago, that it didn't seem to have too many ingredients that were questionable... but the first is beef and the second is beef broth and then beef liver.  Its called something like Old Shep,,,and is the Beef Chunky.  The other formualas were by-products, so I picked up this one to try. Actually, almost never do I not cook meat for her so the cans usually end up for Ollie since I can't imagine my son always having meat to put on his kibble.
I don't mind most of the ingredients as long as the food is not the primary food that we feed all the time.
 

I would be interested to hear Sandra's reply to these questions.Not enough controversy about what you're feeding your dogs lately,perhaps? And therefore not the usual array of supporters and the make you feel good [sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif] posts,maybe?

I'll bite!   THAT was a pretty crummy thing to say!!! Along with:

Sandra, why did you start this and tell people to pick it apart if you are just going to defend it at every turn? Were you just trying to start something? There's an internet word for stuff like that...

and:

[color=#cc6699]What's your point Sandra? If you want to feed Iams then feed it. I don't understand why this post was started other than to stir up a little controversy. [&:]

[/color]
Sorry, I see no need for rudeness.  A conversation is usually opinions,,, seems we should all be allowed to have them on message boards.

Well I know meat broth is listed first, but you know what, what do you get when you are in the hospital after surgery? Broth. I use broth for my soups and stews. I think meat broth would be much better than just palin water.

 
Broth is better than water. But it should be the second, not first, ingredient in a wet food. Good canned food will have a named meat source as ingredient #1, followed by a named broth. See also my previous post via non-specified meat type.

See also my previous post via non-specified meat type.

 
I did and almosts replied then, but was tired and shut the computer off.  Today i will reply.
 
I put that 4D stuff, the road kill, the bodies of cats and dogs icked up from the pound in the same category as  the wedding pictures i saw of Sadam and Bin Laden getting married--Sadam was wearing the dress..  And of the severed leg hopping along beside the ambulance as it took the guy to the hopsital after he got  his leg cut off.  Hubby was almost rolling the aisle at the store after seeing those articles, front page of National inquirer.  It was printed, there were pictures, so it must be true.   
 
I belong to several all breed groups and 5 golden retriever groups and this is the only one where the 4D's and euth animals is ever mentioned in any discussion of dog food.  I think it probale that many years ago this could have been ture, but not for a minute do i think it would be true today here in the unitied states.  When i talked to Purina, in person, not e-mail nor letter-- i was told that they are not only monitered by the fed gove but also state and have inspecters from both l evels of governemtn inspecting the products they use.  And I would think this would apply to the other dog food makers, be it "lesser" or "premium" brands.
 
And as i said before, unless my dog was allergic to certain meats, I don't care what meat the broth is made from--beef, lamb, deer, golpher, rabbit  They are all things dogs would eat.In fact some here toss whole chickens and/or rabbits, feathers, fur and all to their dogs.
 
By the way, that is a beautiful dog in your avatar, such a sweet face.

I think it probale that many years ago this could have been ture, but not for a minute do i think it would be true today here in the unitied states.

Must be nice to live in such a belief system that certain things just don't happen in America.  Well the pentobarbital question was valid enough for the FDA to investigate it. They observed through their own testing that some sampled dog foods did have traces of pento. They surmized that this due to RENDERED protein from euthed dogs and cats being used in the pet food industry. They found that pento survived the rendering process.  They could NOT find dog and cat DNA in the pet food - maybe dog and cat DNA don't survive the rendering process or it could be something else. They even went as far as to test if there would be any untoward effects of these levels of pento in pets. There were no observed untoward effects of pento at these levels on the animals they tested.

Here's the link to the 2002 FDA publication

http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/DFreport.htm

Do with it as you wish. I personally don't care what you feed your dogs. I think there are greater battles in this world to fight. But for the sake of full disclosure let's  not bulls^&t ourselves about what can't happen in the USA.

Paula

Yes, i know all about that as well, read it here on this forum.  But as with the Swiffer mop thing, with the cell phones causing gas pumps to blow up, or the plug in deodorizers  setting houses on fire---I still get e-mails on these these things and others, and read them on forums.But none are true.  In each case ther very well could have been an instance where it happened ONE time somewhere.  I have two brothers in in the fire department and they tell me ( as well as another firmean i know, actually a firelady) that the gas pump/cell phone warnings and the.  plug in deoridzer warnings are just rumors, started and grown and grown  and posted everywhere.  And people believe.  They actually get calls at the fire station about these things
 
i have seen posts here before talking about this and sites were posted where we could read there is no proof whatsoever that bodies of dogs and cats were taken from the pounds to be used for dog food.    As far as i know it couod have been a horse, a cow, a sheep, a hog put down that way.  They all have to be killed someway, tho i would never agree this is the way to do it for  dog (or human) injestion.

Yes, i know all about that as well, read it here on this forum. But as with the Swiffer mop thing, with the cell phones causing gas pumps to blow up, or the plug in deodorizers setting houses on fire---I still get e-mails on these these things and others, and read them on forums.But none are true. In each case ther very well could have been an instance where it happened ONE time somewhere. I have two brothers in in the fire department and they tell me ( as well as another firmean i know, actually a firelady) that the gas pump/cell phone warnings and the. plug in deoridzer warnings are just rumors, started and grown and grown and posted everywhere. And people believe. They actually get calls at the fire station about these things

So you rank a study by the United States Department of Agriculture up there with toxic swiffer? Interesting. Suit yourself  I guess.

i have seen posts here before talking about this and sites were posted where we could read there is no proof whatsoever that bodies of dogs and cats were taken from the pounds to be used for dog food. As far as i know it couod have been a horse, a cow, a sheep, a hog put down that way. They all have to be killed someway, tho i would never agree this is the way to do it for dog (or human) injestion.

Suit yourself here as well. Rendered cow, rendered cat, I won't buy food with animal digest. That's my position.

Paula

Do with it as you wish. I personally don't care what you feed your dogs. I think there are greater battles in this world to fight. But for the sake of full disclosure let's not bulls^&t ourselves about what can't happen in the USA.

 
That i do not do.  When kids can go on the web and find out how to make pipe bombs, etc (Columbine pair), predators can make contact with children, porn pictures and videos can be seen on the computer.  When you can buy books that detail how to be a hit man for hire.....well this shows anything can be published and read. When a  guy can drown a woman in a mop bucket of water and go free (it happened in Austin about 20 yers ago) and an old lady can go to jail for a year for stealing some tuna (I forget where this happen).   When a drunk diver can hit my 29 year cousin, mother of 3 young boys, head on and kill her but walk because he claimed he was changing a tape in his layer and the prosc. could not bring up the fact he  had had a DUI and crashed a car the month before, he was on probation and not suppose to drink at all(it could prejudice the j ury against him)--the def. had friends testify that he had only had 2 beers when they left him 2 hours before the wreck, and 2 wouldn't get him drunk (how many did he drink afer they left)....no i do not have blind faith that things can't happen here. 

Sandra--My experience has been that most canned fomulas are better than the dry version of the same brand. 

I think for the most part when food is discussed it's the dry they are comparing and conversing over, not the canned.  So, that's probably why what you're looking at and what you've read don't jive.  [sm=2cents.gif]

Lori